Mishpacha double take

amother

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 10:47 pm

did anyone read mishpacha double take story about the mechutanim who asked for help with a shidduch? Thoughts?

allthingsblue

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 10:49 pm

I think the mechutonim who didn't help the shidduch along really were in the wrong.

amother

Gold

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 10:50 pm

I thought the set that were complaining that the other side didn't give enough money came across as greedy and opportunistic.

amother

Silver

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 11:17 pm

I thought the mechatunim were realistic.
A boy that is ready to sit and learn can't live off just the rent getting paid.
They can't get the best boy for their daughter if they aren't willing to give more support.

qwerty4

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 11:24 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

I didn’t read the story but why? Isn’t the girl working?

ra_mom

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 11:29 pm

qwerty4 wrote:

I didn’t read the story but why? Isn’t the girl working?

It referenced that she was off from work after the baby and especially then didn't even have money for undershirts. So she was working. But between what she made and what her in-laws covered, it seems it wasn't enough past a garage apartment and basic food staples.

amother

Gold

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 11:33 pm

ra_mom wrote:

I think it said they bought baby crib and stroller. So they did cover the more expensive items.

notshanarishona

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 11:35 pm

The serious lack of communication between the sides was the biggest issue more than the dollar amount of support

ra_mom

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 11:35 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

I think it said they bought baby crib and stroller. So they did cover the more expensive items.

That was very generous of them.
Though it was sad to me that they lived in an airless garage apartment with a baby and didn't even have money no clothe their baby.

TravelHearter

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 11:39 pm

The issue in most of these double take stories is the lack of communication...
Just communicate to your parents that the amount of money isn’t enough for even basic.
They sounded clueless about it.. they thought they were ‘not spoiling’ but there’s a difference between that and them not having money to buy undershirts.

amother

Gold

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 11:40 pm

ra_mom wrote:

That was very generous of them.
Though it was sad to me that they lived in an airless garage apartment with a baby and didn't even have money no clothe their baby.

They were living in Israel, I think? They could have bought extremely cheap baby undershirts at one of the discount stores on Rechov Strauss, gotten hand me downs, or gone to a gemach.
I found the whole story a bit exaggerated tbh like it was trying so hard to make the parents seem like cheapskates forcing the son in law to get some tutoring jobs.

Amelia Bedelia

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 11:57 pm

You know that it's fictional, right?

amother

Gold

Sun, Apr 04 2021, 11:57 pm

Amelia Bedelia wrote:

You know that it's fictional, right?

Yes. But some of the stories are more realistic than others Cool

b.chadash

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 2:38 am

I thought it was very well done, as usual. I always end up feeling sad after reading Double Take, because I sympathize with both sides. Whoever writes this column does a masterful job.

True, communication would have solved this issue, or at least been a positive first step. But it was explained that when the shidduch was redt to them, they were told the girl's parents would take on full support. Since they were wealthy people, they had no reason to assume they would shortchange their own daughter. They wanted to discuss amounts, but apparently were told there's no need.

I assume scenarios like this are not so uncommon. Two families enter into an agreememnt, and one side falls short after the wedding. What can you do?? They are all stuck.

Once the couple was married and experiencing hardship, what were his parents supposed to do? They were in a catch 22. To say something to the mechutanim makes then sound greedy and opportunistic. They could encourage their son to speak up, but that is super awkward. And possibly the daughter felt uncomfortable.

On the other hand it does seem like her parents had no idea how stingy they were being vis-a-vis expecations others had of them, or what was considered normal.

I couldn't blame the mechutanim for being hesitant to encourage such a shidduch. They should have asked a shaila.

On the other hand, if I was the girls mother, I would really have appreciated that they level with me. I would rather be told to my face what the issue is, rather than wonder why my mechutanim would be so unwilling to help us out.

watergirl

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 8:06 am

b.chadash wrote:

With all due respect, I would call it a good job, but far from masterful. Although I do feel the whole point of this column is to get the reader to scream at the page to JUST COMMUNICATE. Clearly, people have these problems in real life, clearly they are quite common, which is why it is so relatable, and clearly, people are in these situations because they did not communicate in the first place.

Re: the bold. The families entered into a BAD agreement and no one fell short. The agreement was clearly not specific or clear. "Full support" is vague and means something different to everyone. They should have been clear with their expectations before the wedding, even if someone told them there was no need to be specific... there was and I hope people who read the story learn a lesson here. They wanted to sell their precious son to the highest bidder and thought he was worth "full support". Well, the highest bidder had other plans. They kept what they felt their side was supposed to provide.

I felt it was tacky and gross of the boy's parents to complain about what the mechutanim sent, how much they imagine was spent on a kiddush, etc. And it was hard to believe, even in a fictional story, that the new grandparents would send over ONLY a few onsies from Target upon the birth of a new grandchild.

It was disgusting of them to sit back and do nothing for this 30 year old young women who was waiting for a shidduch. If anything, they should have said she is a great girl and to be clear and specific when talking money with the parents.

I TRULY hope there is no one like those boy's parents in the world. People who are willing to sit and kvetch but do nothing because their son is oh so precious and special and worth money... I hope this fictional boy didn't get his fictional parents middos.

amother

Khaki

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 8:41 am

The story had me really mad. I think the boy's parents were tottaly wrong.
1. It is their problem that they didn't discuss the amount of support - who goes into a shidduch without clarifying that?
2. Why didn't they clarify things later on? They keep defending their son, when they still have no clue how much the support is.
3. Who says the machutanim would support the same for their other daughter? They are desperate to marry her off. I'm sure anyone going into a shidduch with them would have the brains to clarify the amount of $ for support and the girls parents might be happy to support more to marry her off.

But the part I had the biggest issue with is why the couple can't figure out the $ on their own.
Many people's support just covers their rent. The couple is calling his parents for money to buy groceries??? Especially after all the main baby gear was bought for them? Does the wife not have a job?? Some serious budgeting on the part of the couple is in order.

amother

Magenta

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 9:10 am

watergirl wrote:

Agreed! And what about all these mind games? Making all kinds of cheshbonos for an older single guy - a stranger, no less? You give the information over as you see fit, and let him make his own decision. You can extoll their virtues of the girl, vouch for the family, and just throw in a mention that support is something that needs to be fully clarified.

And all these games and hurt, without even full clarification from the couple how much support they're getting. It could very well be that the kids aren't budgeting properly, or that the daughter has had to cut down her work hours for some reason and the husband stepped up, or that the couple have decided that a different plan works better for them and are just afraid to tell the wife's parents. So many scenarios, no clarity, and yet they're so sure of the situation. If the husband stepped up to the plate, or they decided on another plan in life, and yet they're doing whatever it can to try to hide it and not 'hurt' their parents, then wouldn't it speak to the good middos of the young couple? Isn't that something that speaks so much more than the level of support someone is offering?

amother

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 9:14 am

Is it just me who thought it’s very obnoxious that the boys family sat back stewing that the “support was stingy” when they were the biggest misers of all? it is their son as well why did they think it was ok to give nothing?

Chayalle

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 11:23 am

I know people like that IRL, who expect the girl's side to pay for everything while they do nothing. It never goes well for the relationship.

If I was very wealthy, and could afford full support for my DD's, I would not go into a shidduch with such stingy people.

b.chadash

Mon, Apr 05 2021, 11:34 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think there is a dynamic here that is not spelled out but is assumed to be self-understood. And that is, that in the yeshiva world, if you want a son-in-law who is a serious masmid, you have to be willing to assume full support. The boy's family could be dirt poor, but if they have a "high caliber" son, they don't think they need to give anything. Whatever they do give is considered extra. This is not considered to be stingy if that is what all parties agreed to when entering into the shidduch.

In this story, the boy's family is indeed "dirt poor" and don't see themselves as obligated or able to assist in any meaningful way. Neverthelsss, the mother goes out to buy stuff for the baby, and she considers this as gift. It's not that they are stingy. It's that they don't have much, and they were under the impression that the other side was taking care of things.

We can criticize the boy's parents all day, but that would be ignoring the reality they, and ostensibly the girls parents, live in. These are the "rules" of the game, so to speak. You can refuse to play the game if you want, but if you are in the game, you must recognize the rules.