S\o amazing jobs chassidish men do without education

FranticFrummie

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:15 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

FF, however, isn't discussing use of computers for business. She's asking about the permissibility of use of computers by children for educational purposes.

Would it be acceptable for a Chassidish family to own 2 or 3 home computers, and for their children to spend 90 minutes a day on online math, English and science education?

THANK YOU!

Apparently the bashing and mocking from Chassidish people towards others is perfectly fine on this site. Confused

The rest of you, take a chill pill. ChillPill

ETA: As a single, attractive woman, I try not to have long involved conversations with Chassidish men. If it was your husband I was chatting up, you wouldn't be too please with me. So which is it? Should I talk to lots of men, or should I not?

I base most of my information on what Chassidish posters here say about their own husband's lack of education, lack of ambition, and how lousy their kid's schools are.

butterfly2

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:17 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

THANK YOU!

Apparently the bashing and mocking from Chassidish people towards others is perfectly fine on this site. Confused

The rest of you, take a chill pill. ChillPill

If chasidish people are listing all these jobs that men in the community have- why are you trying to prove that it’s not possible?
I mean I live here and most people I know are doing ok so what are you trying to dig up?

ecs

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:17 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

THANK YOU!

Apparently the bashing and mocking from Chassidish people towards others is perfectly fine on this site. Confused

The rest of you, take a chill pill. ChillPill

Lack of ambition? lol

Blessing1

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:18 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

THANK YOU!

Apparently the bashing and mocking from Chassidish people towards others is perfectly fine on this site. Confused

The rest of you, take a chill pill. ChillPill

Chassidim are the most mocked on this site. Whatever your excuse is, it doesn't justify mocking.
No one here has said anything about you chatting up with Chassidish men, this doesn't come in here. We're talking about Chassidim being successful in business which you believe is impossible.
The only mention on children in your post was mocking that people won't let their children play at a house if they find out there's a computer there. It's disrespectful of you.

gande

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:20 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

We don't believe in letting kids use the computer. They spend enough time in school I dont think my kids would want to do school work on the computer. So we suffice with educational games, toys, real life learning, trips to the science museum, parents explaining stuff …. Adults can do whatever they want online for the purpose of parnossa and to further their education.

tp3

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:23 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

If you don't find value in literature, then you won't value learning Shakespeare. I think Hashem gave us literature, in the same way that he gave us art, and mountains, and oceans. He wants us to appreciate all of it.

I didn't say that Aristotle is "more significant" than Talmud. But Aristotle is significant. You posit "either or." I posit both.

I believe that one of the purposes of education is to open doors and make things available; to help each child discovery their own interests and talents. You mention music. A yeshiva bochur learns the basics of music through prayer, trope, davening and leyning. He may expand that interest. But if he had never heard music, if each prayer were recited without melody, if the Torah and Haftarah were recited not chanted, if he never heard music, would he ever be interested in it?

I was raised entirely secular, but had a very decent Jewish education. Not yeshiva level, of course, but decent. My parents insisted on this because they believed that all education is important; because they believed in opening doors. So do I.

Someone who is musically talented won't forget or be ignorant of music just because he doesn't learn it in school. Music is a huge part of the chassidish world anyway.

Yeshiva is not like school. In school you can get a taste of Aristotle or Shakespeare or chumash lihavdil. If our boys in yeshiva would only get a taste of gemara we'd be in trouble, as a nation.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:30 pm

Blessing1 wrote:

Apparently, you don't have to be a liberal loony in order to be triggered and offended. Rolling Eyes

I have been asked "How many Chassidish men have you talked to?". I think I gave a pretty direct answer.

If you had actually read my posts carefully, instead of having a knee jerk reaction, you would know that I said I have great admiration for those who succeed, IN SPITE of the fact that their basic education is sorely lacking.

Here's a refresher for you:

Quote:

In no way am I implying that there is something inherently less capable about Chassidim. I was only referring back to the NYT article, and the state of some schools. https://www.imamother.com/foru.....25124

Schools have a LOT of room for improvement, and it saddens me that extremely bright kids are only getting the bare bones of what it takes to succeed in business. As Mark Twain once said "I got an education in spite of my schooling."

Those who succeed are doing so because they go above and beyond. Kol haKavod!

Quote:

Nobody is saying that Chassidish men are stupid or incapable, CVS!

I think that point is that unless they have a good educational background, their potential is a lot more delayed. Things that they should have learned in 5th grade, have to be learned as adults. That is not easy, and I respect anyone who goes for higher education.

I don't doubt that Chassidish men hold all of the jobs listed, and do them competently.

Please learn reading comprehension, topic sentences, and how to summarize a paragraph properly.

doodlesmom

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 12:51 pm

I am chassidish, and education and knowledge is a big value in our family.
That being said, the practical education I would love to integrate in Chassidish curriculum, and which I find will help them in life is the following:
Reading, writing, and speaking English up to at least an eighth grade level.
Maths- basics should be enough. ( if anyone needs trig for their career, they can learn on their own.)
Basic computers, Excel and Word. Bonus for quick books.
Budgeting and banking
Very basic knowledge of Geography, Government, and laws of the land. ( which most males can learn by reading even Yiddish language newspapers, magazines etc.):

butterfly2

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 1:15 pm

doodlesmom wrote:

I also hate, when people bring examples of successful Chassidim, while downplaying that the above knowledge would not make their lives much simpler, and give them an easier time in life in general.

No one said it wouldn’t
This thread was about jobs that are common among chasidim despite the obstacle of a subpar education. And somehow it turned into that chasidim can’t do these things because they aren’t college educated.
The system can definitely use an upgrade but people can still do well without college.

jkl

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 1:20 pm

English3 wrote:

I asked DH why we don't teach IT in yeshiva nowadays any job goes with computers. He said that by chassidim we want to teach the boys that torah comes first. When a man is looking for Parnassa that is when they should learn. People can argue as much as they want but this is our belief. Torah first.

This is just some pleasant sounding platitude. It doesnt have to be one or the other. You can teach both while making Torah the priority.

The Torah actually requires us to teach our [b]children[/b] skills for parnassa as part of their chinuch. We aren't smarter than Hashem.

Blessing1

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 1:20 pm

doodlesmom wrote:

I also hate, when people bring examples of successful Chassidim, while downplaying that the above knowledge would not make their lives much simpler, and give them an easier time in life in general.

Of course a better education would make life easier. This thread is about being successful despite lack of education. The men are willing to put in hard work and a lot of effort to be able to succeed despite their lack of education. Instead of sitting back and doing nothing and blaming it on lack of education, they're willing to work hard to learn and succeed.You don't need a college degree and education to be successful in business, but yes, a better education would definitely make things easier.

finallyamommy

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 1:37 pm

Uhhh what? I’ve only skimmed this thread, but what?

FF you’ve met us, and you’ve spoken to my husband, and we’re chassidish. And you know what he does and did for a living, and it certainly involves getting his hands dirty.

And my GP, eye doctor, our therapist, the handyman we call first, and a bunch more people I know are chassidish.

Sorry to be vague but I’m posting under my screen name.

sky

Thu, Apr 08 2021, 1:48 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I would think not really. My kids rarely/never use computers except to learn typing.
But you have to be pretty slow not to pick it up.
My dh didn’t touch a computer until age 25-30. Now he used it daily in business: emailing, banking, typing, ordering,bookkeeping, etc.
most he picked up in a day or two. (The bookkeeping he hired someone a few hours to teach him - wasn’t a big deal)
I have no fears or doubts my kids can pick it up when the time comes

Last edited by sky on Thu, Apr 08 2021, 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total