Home

My house is a war zone and it eats me up
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




OP
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 5:59 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
Btw, OP, I hope I’m not taking over this thread. I don’t mean to talk over you or prevent you from getting responses -

I hope you understand my intentions are utter empathy and commiseration, as well as giving examples so that people who don’t live with this might actually understand what it’s like.

If you’re in a different situation than me, I’ll butt out of this thread 👍

Good Shabbos

I appreciate the discussion and to hear everyone’s circumstances. Your case does seem more severe than mine though so the suggestions might differ. But feel free to continue here. Good luck to both of us. Good Shabbos!
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 6:01 pm
amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:
Hi OP,

I hear and feel your pain. Sending you love and encouragement.

First of all, this is a topic very sensitive and important to me for two reasons. First, I grew up in a dysfunctional home where my siblings and I were pitted against each other. I was bullied by them constantly

Secondly, I got married later in life and so was privy up close to fighting among my friends' kids and my friends' endless aggravations over it. So for both these reasons I vowed my kids wouldn't fight.

The biggest and most glaring thing that I've seen moms do over and over (and which never works) is get involved constantly and act as constant judge and jury. For many reasons, this will backfire and the kids will not only fight more, they will grow to resent you and their perception will forever be of you taking the unfair side.

I read something brilliant once which we implement here in our home and it works like magic. And yes, it's for kids of all ages:

No tolerance policy.

Zero.

NO FIGHTING IN YOUR PRESENCE

If kids are fighting they get dragged TOGETHER into a room TOGETHER. IMMEDIATELY. This is counterintuitive because of course you want to separate them but NO.
NO ONE IS LET OUT OF THE ROOM UNTIL BOTH (or all) PARTIES ARE HAPPY. So they can fight but not in front of you. It's amazing how even small children can work things out when forced to. After the screaming and crying quiets down I'll often eavesdrop on the negotiations. You are NOT involved. You DO NOT get involved. (with the *very* rare exception of egregious unfairness, like one sibling grabbing another new toy. Believe it or not these clear cut situations almost NEVER OCCUR.) I've noticed families where kids fight, the fighting is usually practically habitual. Your goal is breaking the habit.

It takes time. Stay strong.


I never thought of punishing both of them together out of my earshot. Ignoring and mixing in never helped. I think I’ll try this over Shabbos. I don’t know if it will help but at least I can give it a shot. Plus I won’t hear the bickering. That’s ifff I’ll successfully be able to drag them away TOGETHER!
Thank you all! Good Shabbos!
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 6:04 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
Im just putting this out there:
I grew up with INSANE sibling rivalry, similar to what you're all describing. My parents also had great shalom bayis and a great relationship with each of us. We screamed and fought day in and day out. We were picked on and picked on other siblings for stupid reasons.
Today (im one of the oldests, im about 30) we are one of the closest families I know. We really love each other, we speak all the time, and have each other for shabbos constantly. We just really enjoy every opportunity to be together. We are always mevater to each other and easily fargin when one child gets something that another doesnt.
I hope this helps even one of you! I know my parents went through hell with our fighting as children, but they are having intense nachas now, and I promise youd rather fighting teens than fighting adults.
Maybe they just need to get it out of their system!


I do hear this all the time. It’s certainly great chizzuk but it still breaks my heart that until then they are being so nasty to each other. They only have one childhood!
Back to top

amother




Floralwhite
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 6:05 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I never thought of punishing both of them together out of my earshot. Ignoring and mixing in never helped. I think I’ll try this over Shabbos. I don’t know if it will help but at least I can give it a shot. Plus I won’t hear the bickering. That’s ifff I’ll successfully be able to drag them away TOGETHER!
Thank you all! Good Shabbos!


Good shabbos and good luck!! Works when it becomes the routine- not my idea but was really grateful to learn it

And yes, sometimes hard to drag them in together lol!
Back to top

amother




Tan
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 6:17 pm
Someone mentioned that it might be because of getting more attention from the parents, this was exactly the case I had as a child. My mother was overwhelmed and juggling more than she knew how to handle. There was a lot of negative attention seeking. At least then she would stop what she was doing and pay attention.

About the put them in a room right away together, my aunt did that, my mother tried that. As the child I can tell you it was traumatizing because many times in those moments space and distance is needed to calm down. My cousins consider that one of their worst experiences. It does not teach the missing skills. It can backfire if a child feels forced while being unheard.

I generally punish all parties involved in most cases, unless it was clearly one way, like a big boy pulling a toddlers hair. I also have a zero tolerance policy for blame. It is time consuming and takes patience.

But everyone needs to feel heard and learn healthy commincation and respect for others and good communication skills. That said it might be easier in a smaller family to do all this.

I think therapy for children bickering is a waste. A parenting or therapy class for the mother will provide many more results faster than the children going.

Boredom is also not good for children. I do not think you should entertain them, but help them learn to manage their own time and activities independently.

I do not have everything perfect of course but it is a bad trigger for me so it is a top priority of mine.
Back to top

amother




Goldenrod
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 6:19 pm
I think it's more important to focus on a 2 yr old being bullied by an 11 yr old than two older children fighting with each other. The parents need a plan how to keep vulnerable children safe which requires serious parenting sessions, for both parents, not individual therapy for the children unless the individuals have a behavioral or emotional disorder. Go to experienced professionals to get your house under control.
Back to top

bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Apr 16 2021, 6:53 pm
amother [ Orange ] wrote:
I am not saying this to hurt you but I think your kids both need a real diagnosis from top psychologists plus serious medication, even if it means them living elsewhere for a while. They are a serious danger to each other and to your toddler. This isn’t sibling rivalry. Please take this more seriously.


Brave of you to say this under amother while I post under my username, with years of my post history describing my journey of parenting my children.

What makes you think I haven’t taken this seriously?

Do you know how much it hurts when your child’s psychiatrist tells you they’re requesting a house call by Child Protective Services? But you hold back your sobs and maintain eye contact while you say yes instead of collapsing in shame and despair because maybe, finally, someone will STEP IN AND HELP?

And then the psychiatrist accidentally never puts your child’s appointment on their calendar after you scheduled it so that when you show up they just say, “oops. I’m all booked for today and the next month. My next opening is in May. If you have any mental health emergencies, call 911 or the county crisis center. So sorry for the mix-up!”
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
 
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 1:58 pm
Okay, but, you and your husband are still the bosses of your home.

There HAS to be a solution besides “well, maybe my toddler will get murdered by one of her brothers, too bad.”

Are you open to any kind of residential programs for them at all? Is dh?

I’m sorry live-in therapists aren’t a thing 😢
Back to top

grace413




 
 
 
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 4:25 pm
bigsis144 wrote:


And then the psychiatrist accidentally never puts your child’s appointment on their calendar after you scheduled it so that when you show up they just say, “oops. I’m all booked for today and the next month. My next opening is in May. If you have any mental health emergencies, call 911 or the county crisis center. So sorry for the mix-up!”


This is just awful. Is this a reportable offense?

You are very brave to post under your screen name.

Can you find a new psychiatrist?
Back to top

Rachel Shira




 
 
 
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 8:52 pm
Bigsis, I PMed you.
Back to top

amother




Scarlet
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 9:13 pm
I don't allow fighting or bullying or bickering. Whoever is unpleasant can talk it out and problem solve or remove themselves from the room until his behavior is pleasant.
Whoever bullies nonstop will immediately lose screentime or get an early bedtime for an extended amount of time.
When children know that the parents are in charge, they listen.
When parents give the children too much power, children will usurp as much as possible while at the same time hating it. It's the biggest insecurity to have more power than the adult.
Back to top

amother




Apricot
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 9:27 pm
amother [ Aqua ] wrote:
For those that nothing they do stops it. Have you looked into reasons for the behavior? I'll throw a worse case scenario out there... an uncle s-xually abusing them? Perhaps they are reacting to a current trauma in their lives and it's not something you are aware of?


Honestly, I think school has something to do with the "trauma" factor. I think bullying is rampant and most teachers feel the way about their classes that everyone is describing their kids. Kids get bullied at home and bring it to school. Kids get bullied at school and bring it home. It's a viscous cycle.
Back to top

amother




Cerulean
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 9:45 pm
OP I am going to say something I hope doesn't totally break your heart. I am 1 of 2. And even as adults, if we are in a room together- we will likely always get into a fight. Obviously when we were younger and living under 1 roof, it was MUCH WORSE, but even now we don't get along. However- we would never blame our parents for it. Honestly they tried to stop it as much as they could, we didn't have a big space, but they did seperate us often. But it didn't make much of a difference. Our parents have great shalom bayis, neither of us experienced any hardship or trauma, not bullied in school/didnt have internet. But we just could not get along (didnt/doesnt affect our relationships with others- really just between us two). No rewards or punishments or disciplinary techniques. We don't see eye to eye on Anything. And for us, just being in the same place was enough to bother the other one- and just start teasing, name calling or even physical fighting (oh-we were also never ever hit. So not that) depending on how quickly thing escalated. Basically id tell you to imagine a #1 biden supporter with a 1:1 dinner with a #1 trump voter. You know thats not going to go smoothly. The only thing I think may have helped, would be to teach us some respect rules at a younger age, but tbh I dont think we would have been receptive or understood. Thats what the difference is from kid years, besides for the gift of physical distance. I know this isn't cheerful, but im tryimg to say- I think its really not your fault. And yes. For some siblings they just cant get along.
Back to top

amother




Apricot
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 9:55 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
Brave of you to say this under amother while I post under my username, with years of my post history describing my journey of parenting my children.

What makes you think I haven’t taken this seriously?

Do you know how much it hurts when your child’s psychiatrist tells you they’re requesting a house call by Child Protective Services? But you hold back your sobs and maintain eye contact while you say yes instead of collapsing in shame and despair because maybe, finally, someone will STEP IN AND HELP?

And then the psychiatrist accidentally never puts your child’s appointment on their calendar after you scheduled it so that when you show up they just say, “oops. I’m all booked for today and the next month. My next opening is in May. If you have any mental health emergencies, call 911 or the county crisis center. So sorry for the mix-up!”


Big sis, my heart is breaking. I wish I could give you a huge hug. If you're comfortable, please post your full Hebrew name and mother's name. I want to daven for you and your family. I know you from your posts, and you are clearly a devoted mother. I don't know how else to support you but I want to do something.

Also, I don't know where you live, but in my city, there is a service that sends behavioral therapists to the home for several hours a week. They can watch your kids in action and get involved. Can you ask the principal of your kids' school and your pediatrician if this exists near you?

Also, I know from your posts that your boys have ADHD. If you don't mind my asking, I am curious if they are medicated? Also, so everyone understands, ADHD causes an inflammation of the brain centers that control impulse control, fight or flight response, and aggression. A child with ADHD often suffers years of social rejection at school for things totally out of his control, and that can further a sense of rage in the child. As another poster said, hurt children hurt.

Big sis, hang in there, help is surely on the way. DONT GIVE UP. Please post your name, I'm sure others will want to daven for you to get the right shaliach to help your family. Maybe we can create an army of women to daven for you? What you are describing is too much to carry alone.
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 10:06 pm
amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:
OP I am going to say something I hope doesn't totally break your heart. I am 1 of 2. And even as adults, if we are in a room together- we will likely always get into a fight. Obviously when we were younger and living under 1 roof, it was MUCH WORSE, but even now we don't get along. However- we would never blame our parents for it. Honestly they tried to stop it as much as they could, we didn't have a big space, but they did seperate us often. But it didn't make much of a difference. Our parents have great shalom bayis, neither of us experienced any hardship or trauma, not bullied in school/didnt have internet. But we just could not get along (didnt/doesnt affect our relationships with others- really just between us two). No rewards or punishments or disciplinary techniques. We don't see eye to eye on Anything. And for us, just being in the same place was enough to bother the other one- and just start teasing, name calling or even physical fighting (oh-we were also never ever hit. So not that) depending on how quickly thing escalated. Basically id tell you to imagine a #1 biden supporter with a 1:1 dinner with a #1 trump voter. You know thats not going to go smoothly. The only thing I think may have helped, would be to teach us some respect rules at a younger age, but tbh I dont think we would have been receptive or understood. Thats what the difference is from kid years, besides for the gift of physical distance. I know this isn't cheerful, but im tryimg to say- I think its really not your fault. And yes. For some siblings they just cant get along.

I’ve heard this too. I do hear the chizzuk more often “we were real enemies growing up but now we’re best friends” but I also hear “we never got along, our personalities simply clash” after the wedding too.
Bh there is no physical violence in my house. Just lots of nasty bickering. Guess I should be grateful for that.
Back to top

amother




Peach
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 10:18 pm
bigsis144 wrote:

And then the psychiatrist accidentally never puts your child’s appointment on their calendar after you scheduled it so that when you show up they just say, “oops. I’m all booked for today and the next month. My next opening is in May. If you have any mental health emergencies, call 911 or the county crisis center. So sorry for the mix-up!”


Bigsis, can you ask your pediatrician to prescribe in the interim. Just putting this out there- the medication guanfacine (Intuniv) helped my preteen tremendously with the types of behaviors you are describing. It takes some time to kick in- I think full benefits kick in after a month of taking- but it has REALLY helped us and made a tremendous difference in our home. Wont hurt to ask your pediatrician.
Back to top

amother




Lawngreen
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 10:37 pm
Kids need to be safe. So if someone is hurting or trying to hurt another kid, I remove the perp from the situation.
Also I’m never the judge jury or prosecutor. My kids fight because they want my attention. If everyone is safe and they are just saying stupid to each other, I ignore it. And if they say she said he said I say work it out
But if someone got hurt they get all the hugs and attention
Back to top

amother




Babypink
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 11:09 pm
I try not to play judge but I try to get my kids to recognize when they are at fault.

Like I'd ask my child how should your sibling have handled this situation, when they realize that their sibling was in a tough position because of the way THEY behaved they'll come to that realization and then we can try to work on how they should have handled it different. I find it more powerful when a child comes to that realization on their own as opposed to being blamed.
Back to top

amother




Chartreuse
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 11:16 pm
My aunt and uncle had a method, they punished them collectively if they were fighting. They said they could never figure out who started so if there was fighting everyone got punished together. I'll say that my cousins rarely fought because of that! They would think twice because they knew they would lose their privileges!
Back to top

amother




Amethyst
 

Post Sat, Apr 17 2021, 11:21 pm
Big sis, please please look into pandas. If psych isn't helping...the rages and bullying and violence from pandas kids are heartbreaking and indescribable. The right antibiotic can LITERALLY change the behaviours to a totally new child.
(The first time the "so-called" bully took steroids and voluntarily professed his love (hug and kiss) for his sibling and actually shared his toys with his usual victim was eye opening to me. My bully was a NICE kid underneath all that brain inflammation! I couldn't have been more surprised and learnt a powerful parenting lesson. And I have a few pandas kids (unfortunately runs in families as it is an autoimmune condition), so by now, there is more then one bully/violent person.)
Please post if you would like me to pm u.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 3 of 4 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

Related Topics Replies Last Post
[ Poll ] Is your house clean all week? 52 Today at 11:24 am View last post
Rent a house for Shavuos
by amother
3 Mon, May 10 2021, 10:44 am View last post
How much does it really cost to buy a house?
by amother
14 Mon, May 10 2021, 9:44 am View last post
S/O What is your Hogwarts House?
by scruffy
14 Sun, May 09 2021, 9:30 pm View last post
[ Poll ] S/O what house do you think you'd be Sorted into? Explain
by amother
78 Sun, May 09 2021, 4:29 pm View last post