Threatening not to go to school or day camp
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Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:11 pm
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
OP, my advice to you for the future would be to give your daughter a budget for spring/summer shoes (or whatever the item in question is) and then she can spend it as she likes. So if your budget is, say, $60 (or $100, whatever), she can choose to spend it all on one pair of shoes or to get cheaper shoes and sneakers from Target. And if she makes choices that cost more than the budget she can spend her own money (or earn from you) for the extra.

BTW, it is crazy--and a big expense--how many different types of shoes kids "need" to have--but things like crocs, snow boots, rain boots can be handed down to younger kids in the family.

If you sign up a child for camp - you need to send the child to camp in camp clothes and shoes. If 11 year old is having trouble with the advanced planning - mom should be stepping up to help.
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Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:13 pm
keym wrote:
I've been living in Lakewood my whole married life, raising kids here and have teens.
And I'll say that except some specific communities and schools, it's much rarer for brand to matter rather than style.
My kids and their friends don't care what brand their shoes, schoolbag, clothing is. However style matters. If my son needs a black loafer with a small tassel, he doesn't care if I buy it for $95 at a frum store or $35 on Amazon, he wants the shoe.
My kids refused the $70 Bingo hats not because of the label, but because the brim was way too wide and it looked off.

My point is that it's not either/or. Affording something or style. A middle road is possible and what is happening by most parents.

I totally agree.
My girls actually love finding bargains and sale items that are in style. My DD's summer sneakers were $12.90 on sale in Zara, and she was so happy to find them. One of her new Shabbos dresses for the summer was from Shein, for $10 and change, and she got so many compliments on it.
It's not about the price, it's about the look and the style. Sometimes you find, and sometimes you don't. Some years I find cheaper clothes and more expensive shoes, and sometimes vice versa.

I used to have a neighbor whose kids always looked put-together and with it. She told me she was struggling financially but was really good at finding "in" clothing and shoes at bargain stores, including Serendipity. I have never been that talented, to be honest, but I have gotten better at it in some areas over the years.

And I had a wealthy neighbor who told me she finds alot of her own clothes in Target. For real.

ETA another thing I find (it's one of my things I'm a stickler about) is it's also about the fit. How something looks on a particular person makes a big difference. For that reason, I tend not to look so good in bargain clothes (they just don't fit me right) but my SIL, who is thinner than I am, pulls off amazing looks from bargain finds. She just looks good in clothes.
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Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:18 pm
I think it'a not about affording but priorities in spending.

I met a woman yesterday. Her toddler had winter shoes with a hole. Her own shoes were worn out. She showed me a $100 bill that she claimed was the only available money she had right now debating whether to spend it on her own clothes or kids spring/summer clothes. She was trying to match up for her kids pieces of clothing to old faded/worn out/stained articles of clothing. She wanted her family in matching. She browsed the sales rack from last year leftovers & was upset when she couldn't find sizes for matching her kids.

Otoh, she was telling me about her plans, for a shabbos getaway retreat this week in hotel with food & shiurim with her husband & paid babysitter for her toddler over the weekend.

I think I would've made different decisions.
If she feels the need for vacation there are cheaper options. She can wear her old stuff, her kids are growing. She can get new clothes for her kids for cheap, and not get tops in local stores to match her old shmattes.
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Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:22 pm
amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:
Chassidish schools in Williamsburg and Boro Park allow dark colored sneakers to school. My nieces and friends kids are wearing sneakers. Dark loafer sneakers are no different than shoes. I live in Monsey and I think every Chassidish school allows sneakers. Most schools it can't be light colors but that's the case for daycamp as well.

My dgtr is in preschool & rules about no sneakers/sandals to school were sent home before Pesach.
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Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:35 pm
dankbar wrote:
My dgtr is in preschool & rules about no sneakers/sandals to school were sent home before Pesach.

Even dark colored sneakers? That's weird. Especially for pre school. I guess it's an exception. Most pre schools even allow light colors sneakers and sandals. In Monsey even Satmer allows it. In Williamsburg Viznitz, Pupa, Klausenberg, Skvere allow sneakers.
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Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 2:48 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
is it fair to say that kids see the amount of shoes mom has and need the same?
I try to keep with one air of shoes a season and I think my kids see this as an example that if I can do with one maybe they can do with one too?

Do you wear the same shoes to your office (school) that you wear to shul and wear to the gym?

Loafers are not appropriate for sports or other athletics. The child needs sneakers for camp. Set a reasonable budget, that allows her to get a decent pair, then tell her she'll have to earn the money if she wants to spend more than that.
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Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 3:29 pm
amother [ Wine ] wrote:
You dont have girls.

Right. But I've taught in girls schools. Granted oot-ish. I haven't seen what is described here. These little girls wore the same sneakers or shoe every day until a new pair was necessary.

During the school year the girls I know have schools shoes or sneakers and shabbos shoes. And of course stuff for rain/snow.

During the summer the girls I know have sneakers, pool, and shabbos shoes.

And of course everything gets replaced when it is worn out or outgrown.

Now headbands and stuff like that is another story. And socks. And tights. And all that stuff.

I think all kids need sneakers. I don't think they need new ones just because it's a new season.

That wouldn't stop me from treating my child now and then. But if it becomes an entitlement thing that wouldn't fly.
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Post Thu, Apr 22 2021, 5:11 pm
I haven't read the whole thread, but it seems like this is not going to a good place.
If a girl feels so uncomfortable showing up to camp/school in the wrong shoes that she prefers not to go, then in the end she will simply not go.

The question for op is, what will you do if your child refuses to go to camp? Do you care, or can she just stay home? (For now I understand she has shoes for school).

You can't drag a preteen anywhere by force. It's better to avoid these ultimatums of 'I won't go to camp if...'

It also depends on what everyone else is doing. If everyone indeed has the shoes she wants, then I can understand not wanting to go without the shoes. Heck, if everyone at a wedding was wearing heels, I wouldn't want to show up with sneakers. I'd rather stay home.
Not everyone (especially a 12 yr old) has the confidence to show up dressed against the norm.

So you've got to preempt this sort of thing if you are interested in her going to camp. Not turn this into a power struggle.
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Post Fri, Apr 23 2021, 3:46 am
Op, I think you should try the empathy approach.
Don’t make any big deal now.
Say something like, “ oh I feel so bad for you that you aren’t comfortable with your new shoes.... we really want you to be comfortable... let’s see what we can do “.
No one is asking you to spend a lot again. Find a trendy sneaker online for $20. There are so many closeout options. Nordstrom rack, gap, Macy’s clearance, amazon...
Most important is she should know that you really care about her feelings.
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