Threatening not to go to school or day camp

amother

Pearl

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 8:34 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

It is if you're being a drama queen about it, and pitching a fit. Holding your parents as emotional hostages until you get your own way, refusing to budge. She might as well be holding her breath until she turns blue.

Giving in to manipulative tactics just perpetuates them.

It is not manipulative to say I can't go to camp without proper shoes. It's the truth, said in a desperate tone.
My daughter says these things to me too. Listen to her overall message not to her word choice. Understanding builds connection and closeness. A child should feel understood, not picked on for her mistakes.

amother

Salmon

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 8:44 pm

Getting one, not so in style shoe/sneaker that will work for both (school and day camp) or getting an in style shoe that won’t really work for both is not a fair choice for an 11 year old that wants to fit in.

I understand why your daughter would choose the more in style shoe because what matters most is for her to be in style.
I think that’s why when you presented the choices to her it made sense to rather get what’s in style than what’s appropriate (like sneakers for the summer)

Now after she got the loafers and agreed to also wear them for the summer shes realizing how badly she really wants to fit in in the summer too and also get sneakers.

I think it’s really normal for someone who has to choose between these 2 options to be so indecisive.
Because either way she’ll have to compromise.

Here in Brooklyn it’s standard to get a spring shoe after pesach in addition to sneakers for the summer.

The perroquete loafers that you got, are already considered a cheaper shoe ($45) compared to the $100+ that the local stores sell. And they’re half the price of Atlanta Moccasins you mentioned.

If you care about her feeling and her need to fit in PLEASE get her the sneakers without having her beg you or earn it.

Just want to add here that I grew up in a dysfunctional controlling (pretend poor) home. I was the challenging Pre teen that somehow managed to get my way sometimes.
I remember in 7th grade I wanted only 1 shoe that was the IN shoe. I begged and begged and promised that these shoes are stronger than regular and they will hold well, everyone has them and everything else that I was able to think of. Surprisingly my father agreed, but I had to promise I will wear them until the summer and not get spring shoes after pesach which was the norm. I promised because I so badly wanted them. But spring came and guess what I SOOOO badly wanted to be like everyone else again and get spring shoes. I remember going outside and rubbing the front of my shoes on the pavement so that it can get a hole and then force my parents to get me new shoes.
Trust me it wasn’t fun. I’m honest by nature but the need to fit in was so strong that I ignored my promise and did anything it takes to get what I felt I needed.
Please don’t do it to your child

DrMom

Mon, Apr 19 2021, 10:06 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I felt like giving you all an update. My daughter wore her cognac loafers to school today. She came home and described her classmates positive reactions to the shoes without any prompting on my part.Over the course of our subsequent conversation she asked me if she could use an initiative I hope to implement with my kids to encourage room cleanliness and shower routine as a way to earn the sneakers she wants. Of course I agreed. I feel satisfied with this solution and know that I did not give in to her "tantrum"/threat. For all of you who disagreed with my decision to make her earn them, I guess we each reserve the right to parent as we see fit. In this particular situation I felt this was a want, not a need and such this method is warranted. Thanks again everyone for your input. It definitely interesting to see the many different viewpoints of the mothers on this site.

I'm glad she found a way to get her mother to buy her sneakers. It's a pretty basic and practical part of every kid's wardrobe.

Why didn't you just offer her that solution in the first place?

amother

Wine

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 8:09 am

Quote:

Op, your daughter is a smart girl who can read the social map and the map of interpersonal relationships well. If you continue this way you will end up with no relationship with her as soon as she is independent (which will be faster than you think with girls as smart as her)
If you want to have a meaningful relationship with her you have to reread what 80% of the woman have been trying to tell you here.

imasinger

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 8:18 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Good going! And it sounds to me like you do have a good relationship with her, just went through a short bump in the road.

Do in general look to avoid power struggles, but IMNSVHO you're doing great.

amother

Wine

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 8:39 am

imasinger wrote:

Do you honestly think a necessary garment should be earned by a child by practicing basic level hygiene.
Child should be showering as any other human, Parent should be buying sneakers for camp. Why the whole exchange?

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 8:46 am

imasinger wrote:

I honestly think that a kid who pushed for certain expensive shoes that were expected to be the only shoe purchased until fall (because she doesn't do athletics) can be told to earn a second pair.

Especially when what's needed to do to "earn" it is a behavioral change that benefits the child for the future.

I see this as a total win.

Your mileage may vary.

The child did not push for a certain expensive shoe.
She got a regular shoe. Getting sneakers for camp is a standard thing that kids should not have to earn them or beg for them. I don't get how OP thinks it's a win that her daughter resorted to having to earn them. I see her daughter doing it out of desperation because she really wants sneakers she should be getting without her mother making her earn it. She see's that earning them is the only way and she has no other choice.

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 8:48 am

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

And my middle schooler should be brushing her teeth, but she isn't without an incentive. Life happens.

Incentive is an extra, a treat they wouldn't otherwise get. Not a standard basic need. You don't tell a child that if they'll brush their teeth they'll get a coat for the winter and if they don't brush they'll need to wear a spring jacket in the winter. It makes no sense.

amother

Wine

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 8:50 am

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

And my middle schooler
should be brushing her teeth, but she isn't without an incentive. Life happens.

This is not a middle schooler, this is a teen that at this point should be responsible for her own hygiene. If she is not the world will teach her to. Even if this is a good method to get the habit going at a young age(Lets leave that topic aside for now), at this point she has outgrown the incentives to shower stage. As a parent you can guide and give the tools (like make sure she knows how and has deodorant, proper body and hair soaps ect.)
But secondly, an incentive in general should be something extra not something the child needs. (99.9 of society walking around in separate sneakers for camp = need. I hope we aren't differing on that)

amother

Wine

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 9:05 am

imasinger wrote:

No, this is an 11 year old.

And I think the "need" is in part cultural. I will bow to those who live in Brooklyn. In my OOT world, nobody "needs" sneakers for daycamp when they have no intention of running or getting their shoes near water, etc.

And, OOT nobody would pay that much money for school shoes. Or even bother with a designer name (I personally never even heard of)
But every brooklyner is saying that this is normal!!!!

amother

Orange

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 9:07 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

And, OOT nobody would pay that much money for school shoes. Or even bother with a designer name (I personally never even heard of)
But every brooklyner is saying that this is normal!!!!

I live oot and sneakers are the default for day camp, not loafers. Not just campers, the counselors, too. Nobody shows up in loafers or dress shoes.
If anything I think sneakers should be purchased for an 11 year old before loafers are even considered.

amother

Wine

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 9:10 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

In the camp I went to we would get points off if a kid in our bunk would show up to activities without sneakers. Suddenly I am feeling bad for that kid that never 'wanted' to wear sneakers. OY.

amother

Pearl

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 9:10 am

imasinger wrote:

Two pairs of shoes per season is reasonable. If you step in a mud puddle by accident or get caught in a rainstorm, you need an extra pair.
The want vs need is getting confused here.

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 9:16 am

imasinger wrote:

I don't think it's common OOT for kids to wear shoes in the summer. Most kids are in sneakers or sandals. Sneakers in the summer is and always was a standard basic and not a cultural need.