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If you are MO: coed or only boys school?
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:56 am
This question is only for people where it is considered normal and religiously acceptable for boys and girls to go to school together for elementary and middle school.

Would you prefer your son go to a boy's only school or coed for elementary and middle school, if there were two good schools? I know they say that girls have more confidence if they go to all girls schools, but I haven't heard what is better for boys. Any opinions?
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amother




Brown
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 6:06 am
I think boys fare better in mixed schools and girls fare better in all-girl schools.

I have taught in several all boys' junior and high schools (dati leumi, Israeli) schools and it is usually a wild balagan. I have also taught in many coed junior and high schools in Israel (secular) and they are much more functional. I think the girls' presence calms the boys down somewhat.
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amother




Cerise
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 6:24 am
I'd want to compare the Judaics curricula. How much time is devoted to the Jewish subjects, what level of textual proficiency is developed. And send to the school with the more rigorous approach in that area.

This is assuming no special factors like LD or bullying concerns, and also assuming both schools have good secular studies.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 6:33 am
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
I think boys fare better in mixed schools and girls fare better in all-girl schools.

I have taught in several all boys' junior and high schools (dati leumi, Israeli) schools and it is usually a wild balagan. I have also taught in many coed junior and high schools in Israel (secular) and they are much more functional. I think the girls' presence calms the boys down somewhat.


In my experience, this was true. DD was in public school, and in 4th grade they had her sit next to a very angry and disturbed boy. He was hurting a lot, and was in desperate need of a calming and nonjudgmental influence. (Last year, he threw a desk through a window!)

The year he sat with DD, he was a model student, very happy and cooperative almost all of the time. He had a very hard time with reading, which is DD's strongest subject, and she was happy to help him out. DD struggles with math, which was the boy's favorite subject.

The teachers said it was a match made in heaven, and made everyone's lives easier that year.

I think that it balances boys' energy out, so that when they are separated for high school, they are more rounded and normal.

For SURE separate high schools, though. No question. Send the boys out if there is nothing in your area, or if they're ready, send the girls out. Even consider moving if you have to.
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 6:47 am
Dh wants especially in puberty go to boys schools because of the puberty hormones and I agree with it. I mean as a teen I was only busy how to attract and flirt with boys and that is not good for education and religious study. We are in the middle of MY and MO
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 6:53 am
Chickensoupprof wrote:
Dh wants especially in puberty go to boys schools because of the puberty hormones and I agree with it. I mean as a teen I was only busy how to attract and flirt with boys and that is not good for education and religious study. We are in the middle of MY and MO


I agree.

I'd like to change my original post, and include middle school to be gender separated as well. DD started getting zexually harassed by boys in middle school. The faculty just shrugged and said "There's nothing we can do about it. We can't be everywhere."

I had to pull her out because she was not safe. (Ultra liberal public school, with lots of Muslim boys. PC and fear of offending a different culture Rolling Eyes .) I'm not saying Jewish boys would be zexual harassers - but don't put a stumbling block before the hormonally blind.
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 7:00 am
I don't think it really matters for elementary school, but by middle school, where puberty is now a factor, definitely separate. However, I have had my boys in an all-boys school since first grade because it's easier to stay with one school than to have switch.
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amother




Cerise
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 7:32 am
I agree that boy/girl concerns arise by middle school.

From my days in public school, I recall 6th grade being a major turning point. 5th grade was pretty innocent, while 6th grade had a lot of people dating and fooling around. But that maybe because of how the buildings were divided. Several small elementary schools of K-5 merged into a single large junior high of 6-8, so the overall tone in junior high was being set by 8th graders.
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amother




Seashell
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 7:56 am
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
I think boys fare better in mixed schools and girls fare better in all-girl schools.

I have taught in several all boys' junior and high schools (dati leumi, Israeli) schools and it is usually a wild balagan. I have also taught in many coed junior and high schools in Israel (secular) and they are much more functional. I think the girls' presence calms the boys down somewhat.

This. Boys fare better in mixed schools, a boys only school has too much testosterone in one place!
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amother




Seashell
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 7:57 am
Also, our local MO high school has many alumni that ended up marrying each other so it's kind of sweet! Very Happy
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STMommy




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 9:37 am
I grew up MO and went to a premier US MO school but even there we were separated by class/part of building for grades 6 through 8; in HS we did not have boys in our classes until 11th grade electives and there we were also in a totally different part of the building.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 9:52 am
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
I think boys fare better in mixed schools and girls fare better in all-girl schools.

I have taught in several all boys' junior and high schools (dati leumi, Israeli) schools and it is usually a wild balagan. I have also taught in many coed junior and high schools in Israel (secular) and they are much more functional. I think the girls' presence calms the boys down somewhat.


I'm yeshivish so can't answer the OP but I remember thinking this myself. I grew up in a city that had totally different schools systems for nursery-12 so went to girls only from day 1. Then I raised my kids in a city where the schools have boys and girls divisions and the preschool was totally mixed. So it was weird for me to have my girls with boys for so long. But I was so glad my sons had that extra year with girls. (Now the pre 1 As are in the same gender buildings. Oh well.)

I also found it interesting that girls do better with girls, and boys with mixed, as has been mentioned on this thread. It seems that societally, it would be better for the kids to be separated in high school since the girls need it and for some serious study in how to give the boys the benefits they were getting. If it's that they stay calmer, maybe they need a mussar/chessed curriculum, e.g.

OP, hatzlacha whatever you decide and may you find the school to be true partners in your kids' chinuch.
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Teomima




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 9:59 am
I got a MO/DL co-ed education from preschool through high school. I've sent my children to co-ed schools for elementary school. Middle and high schools it depends more on the school fit for each child, whether the school is single gender or co-ed didn't really play into the decision factor for me. We've done both.

I also agree with everything above. Girls often benefit from girls-only schools, though that's not a hard and fast rule across the board. But the boys I went to school with were great. I think being with girls was really good their emotional maturity.
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amother




Fuchsia
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 10:02 am
I don’t think there is one right answer, or there would be only one type of school. Do you have both options in your area that you are comfortable with? I would look at all the factors and the child individually.
If he is all of 4 and you are picking a school for your family, which school do you like and feel most comfortable with from an education, haskafic, and parent body perspective. I can’t imagine that everything is equal and you are just deciding based on co-ed or separate.

When oldest was 3, my husband was dead set on a single gender school and only single gender. We went to all the open house anyway and the single gender school was the first on crossed off.
We sent to a coed with separate classes from 4th grade and up but dc ended up at a coed HS which felt like the best fit and THRIVED. My next went to a single gender HS which is where they felt most comfortable.

I am very fortunate to live in Bergen County where we are blessed with many wonderful options here. I don’t think there is one right or wrong answer.

While this below is geared more to HS, you can still get the idea.
If he is very studious and quite, he might do better with girls. If he is social and distracted he may not. Is he a sports guy and one to bond with his classmates and rebbe in the gym? Are they academically on par? Do they have the same resources available? What is the strength of the school? Where are his friends going? Are they great influences who you want him to be with or would you prefer he had a new crowd? Can he go for the day and where does he feel most comfortable?
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mha3484




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 10:54 am
My boys are in a more RW yeshiva style school so I have seen how they really benefit from having a rebbe for part of the day which I think is unique to single gender schools. The Coed MO school in my town has 95% female staff. There are very few men. My boys have gained so much from having a rebbe and having overall a strong male environment. The rebbeim and the administration were boys themselves which gives them a lot of insight into how to teach them. I find as the boys get older the female teachers struggle to relate to them and the boys struggle with behavior and motivation.
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 11:01 am
My kids went to schools that separated genders at fourth grade (coed until third). I found that my girls had a lot of drama fighting with the boys in their class and just waiting until they got to fourth grade and didn’t gave boys in their class while my son couldn’t care less. In my opinion, for boys having girls in the class is good at a young age. I think once they’re a bit older in middle school there is a lot of boy-girl tension and hormones flying, I would prefer a segregated gender school for that age.
But I don’t know if this would be the deciding factor deciding which school to send to.
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amother




Cerise
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 11:04 am
A perk of all-boys' schools that I've seen discussed, is that without girls, boys have more space to explore interests and activities that are coded more feminine in a co-ed environment. So boys' schools often have more boys seriously engaging in areas like, for example, literature and drama than co-ed schools.

The same is said about HBCUs and all girls' schools. Apparently, when one group is mostly or entirely taught separately, the students feels freer to pursue whatever they want and are not intimidated out of it by the predominance of another group or by the idea that this is not their kind of activity.

I don't know how this dynamic works in a frum boys' school specifically, but it might be worth thinking or googling about.
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amother




Teal
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 12:04 pm
Coed through middle school is good. They need to know that the opposite gender is human. Separate at puberty to remove distractions. Gender separate education is more of a plus for girls, who may be reluctant to show their brains, especially in STEM studies, when boys are around. Having girls around may be a civilizing influence on some boys but otoh they may just be inspired to show off their machismo even more.
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 12:11 pm
I’ve heard that boys do better in elementary when they’re with girls. I didn’t hear that for middle school though. I had some bad experiences with boys when I was in middle school and I remember some girls bullying a boy who they thought was “hot” but not socially savvy. So IMO girls should definitely be separate for middle school, and maybe boys as well.
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amother




Lemon
 

Post Tue, Apr 20 2021, 1:07 pm
I am RW MO and my kids went to an elementary/middle school that is co-ed, but they split them by gender in 5th grade and they are pretty separate from then on. We wanted non-co-ed for high school. I think DS would have been very distracted by girls, though now that he's graduating I kind of wish he'd gone to a coed school as I think it might have forced him to mature a bit. I was less concerned about the opposite for DD, but there is a lot of research suggesting what others here have mentioned--coed is good for boys, bad for girls. Part of is it that many teachers, even without realizing it, favor the boys in a mixed classroom--call on them more, etc, and the boys' behaviour might also determine how the classroom functions to the detriment of the girls.

I also think that it's good for the boys to have rebbeim, and you are more guaranteed of that in a boys only school.
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