Poor middle class, support group

amother

Banana

Mon, Aug 15 2022, 1:11 am

Yep.
I hate that DH and I work full time, crazy hours, and still have trouble making ends meet. Tuition is a killer.
I hate that people who cheat and steal to get on programs can somehow have housekeepers, fancy or at least presentable furniture, go on vacations, wear nice clothing...
I resent people who choose not to work or work minimally and live on a higher lifestyle than us. Why do I work so hard? And then they tell me "moms shouldn't work full time. Cut back" and guilt me.
I am not against people who cant earn or whose jobs pay so little that they get programs. It is those who choose to not work or lie/cheat the system. I just hate I work so hard and pay so much in taxes but end up worse off.
I comfort myself knowing I at least have ethics.

amother

Grape

Mon, Aug 15 2022, 2:52 am

[quote="amother Vermilion"]

monsey01 wrote:

yes, thanks! they are earning plenty of cash so they do have decent lifestyle which includes shopping in jewish stores, camp, bungelow colonies, lots of cleaning help etc... but earning on the books -not so much...[/quo
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Things are not always what they look like. Maybe they are receiving help from parents, which is legal. Maybe they scrimp on things you don't know about. Maybe they need cleaning help for health reasons. Don't be so sure that you know what is happening in other people's homes.

And maybe things are exactly the way they seem… they use (and abuse) their yiddishe kup and yiddishe chutzpah and manage to make a decent income off the books, buying what they want and hiring cleaning help because they can, and clearing out the shelves in the grocery with their food stamps.

I have a neighbor whose husband makes 40k a year as a teacher and she runs an illegal overpriced babysitting group. They’re on all the government programs including a full time “therapist” for one of her kids (read: free mother’s helper) She’s constantly updating her home decor (floors, cabinets, furniture), has the best backyard and toys and goes on vacations multiple times a year. I know this because she told it to me flat out. She did research and found out the exact things you need to say to get your child a diagnosis that makes him eligible for a therapist, so she has a free employee for her daycare. And she buys food on food stamps, gets tuition discounts… the works.
Meanwhile we’re across the street, slaving our butts off just to be in the “poor middle class” and have the zechus of paying full price on everything

amother

Jade

Thu, Aug 18 2022, 7:21 am

amother Grape wrote:

I totally get you and yes its hard, what comforts me is knowing that I'm doing the right thing and I could sleep at night.. I'm not saying its not hard, but I try to focus on myself and what is ethical

amother

Aubergine

Thu, Aug 18 2022, 8:36 am

I'm also in the "poor" middle class category. Our earnings pre-tax are about $130k/year and with tuition and other expenses we're running on empty most months. It helps when I stop comparing my situation to others and just focus on the brachos that we do have. B"H I have the ability to earn this income. B"H I have work that's meaningful and fulfilling. B"H I was blessed with a large healthy family. B"H we are able to meet our basic needs (just barely). Like others said, many months there are open miracles where some extra money comes in just enough to cover an immediate need.

B"H we own a house even if it's not the fanciest or in the nicer part of town. B"H we just had another frum family move around the corner from us after years of being the only frum family on the block, and B"H they have children the same ages as mine. B"H my kids have clothes to wear even if we get the cheaper brands. Other people may be able to afford more, but by not looking at what other peopel have it makes it easier to cope and to recognize the brachos each and every day. Hashem sends us exactly what we need.

amother

Orchid

Thu, Aug 18 2022, 11:27 am

I just want to say thank you for pulling this together. I agree with other posters, pre tax just under 130, after tax just over 100 with several children BH. My salary hasn't gone up, no cost of living increase at all, but full tuition, daycare, and babysitting all have. My kids wear hand me downs with very few exceptions (when we don't get clothing from someone else, socks, undies). We have NEVER taken a vacation as a couple or as a family, only gone to visit family and stay at their homes. Never been overseas or to Israel. We don't have cleaning help. 2 vehicles BH but the one that fits the entire family is 20 years old and needs more repair than it's worth and not all the doors open, we desperately are hoping that Hashem sends us a reliable and safe newer family minivan. We pay rent to the bank for a modest house that is significantly smaller than most in our area have, and we aren't on the "in" block.

My husband and I both work full time (50+ hours per week each) and I also work part time an additional job, but income on that varies if I'm pregnant or if the kids are sick etc... Some years the income is less.

It's challenging and stressful, but I constantly thank Hashem that we are able to pay our bills. Somehow we have been able to pay - but honestly I'm stressed about the upcoming school year with increasing costs for tuition daycare and babysitting. The only way it'll work is if Hashem sends a miracle - which He always has. Working on my bitachon and recognizing everyone else is in the same boat!

amother

NeonOrange

Sun, Aug 21 2022, 1:33 am

We are at about $4000 a month so..... $48,000 a year? 2 kids.... I THOUGHT we were middle class since we don't qualify for food stamps but I guess we're poor seeing as how everyone else in this thread is over $100,000 a year.

monthly expenses
Rent is $1500 ish
electric and gas is $250 ish
debt repayment is $1000 ish
car payments and insurance and phone $1000 ish
the rest goes to groceries and we spend more than we make (hence all the debt repayment)

no medical insurance (medicaid) and no tuition (public school)
but also no vacations, cleaning help.... and by golly, did someone say manicures? I haven't bothered with that in about 20 years.

amother

Banana

Sun, Aug 21 2022, 1:39 am

amother Grape wrote:

This is so wrong on so many levels. Legal, ethical...
And that poor kid will have a diagnosis follow him forever just to make Morah's life easier.
And how does the aid get paid if it is an illegal daycare? At least where I am they usually have to show they are helping the kid in a program ...
What kind of aid is given for full time help?