S/o What is wrong with WhatsApp?

amother

Olive

Mon, May 31 2021, 2:29 pm

Crookshanks wrote:

Someone comes onto every single thread to say this. We're not responsible for your yiddishkeit. We can discuss things that are wrong/right/a matter of hashkafah without someone coming on here and saying ooh look because of you I'm getting whatsapp/a lace top shaitel. Seriously? Are you trying to make us feel guilty for these threads?

Um do you have an actual straight opinion on WhatsApp? First you were bashing the WhatsApp users now you switch over to the other side?
I happen to have WhatsApp and I use it on a steady basis. My point was that theres nothing wrong with it. It's that blowing this up way out of proportion is what makes it wrong .

Crookshanks

Mon, May 31 2021, 2:33 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

A) I didn't bash whatsapp users anywhere. I argued against the argument that not having whatsapp makes one inconsiderate.
B) This is not called switching over to the other side. This sarcastic non argument that keeps popping up is annoying. You're not making a point, unless the point is for people to feel guilty over discussing something.
C) A thread asking people why they do/don't use whatsapp isn't called blowing things out of proportion. And if you think 10 threads about shaitels is blowing things out of proportion, you're welcome to block the forum.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, May 31 2021, 2:46 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

That someone must get what’s app so someone else doesn’t G-d forbid have to send an extra text.

Umm, yes.
We aren't talking about one text a week. Or even one text a day. We are talking about very important announcements, daily. Why do I need the stress of passing these on to a coworker? Am I responsible if I forget and she messes up at work because of me?
We are also talking about entire group conversations taking place on whatsapp. I am not responsible to summarize these and pass them on.
Being a whatsapp messenger to another person can be extremely time consuming and stressful.

And this is true outside of work as well. Why do I need the stress of telling someone that tomorrow all the kids need to wear a white shirt to school? If I forget, her kid will be the only one not in white? Or what if I forget to tell her the class tiyul has been moved to an earlier time. Her kid will miss the tiyul because I forgot?
These things take emotional headspace. It's not just the time, it's the responsibility and the annoyance.

Crookshanks

Mon, May 31 2021, 2:50 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

In companies and schools where most people don't have whatsapp, school news is on a hotline, sent home with a note, or a robocall, or on the homework sheet. It's not dependent on an app that not everyone uses on a smartphone that not everyone owns. Business news is sent through emails and slack and the myriad ways businesses have to communicate. If it's important enough, it shouldn't be on whatsapp. That's not professional.

enneamom

Mon, May 31 2021, 2:55 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

That's ridiculous. WhatsApp shouldn't be a requirement to work in a company or attend a school.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, May 31 2021, 2:55 pm

Crookshanks wrote:

I was talking about a situation mentioned here several times, where a woman is not on whatsapp but wants others to update her.
I was in such a situation myself a few years back, where a coworker was the only one without whatsapp (in Israel) and as her friend, I had to update her. Let me tell you, it was a part time job in and of itself.
It is absolutely not fair to join institutions that use whatsapp (be it work or school) and expect others to update you.
Obviously there are institutions which don't use whatsapp. And people who refuse to use it should go there.
As for professional or not, that is cultural. Whatsapp is used in professional settings all over Israel, and as someone mentioned above, throughout South Africa. Just because Americans have decided whatsapp is unprofessional does not make it inherently so.

enneamom

Mon, May 31 2021, 2:57 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

"No non-WhatsApp users need apply"?

Wow.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, May 31 2021, 2:58 pm

enneamom wrote:

That's ridiculous. WhatsApp shouldn't be a requirement to work in a company or attend a school.

For work, it definitely is a requirement in many places. Do you think it's ridiculous that having a phone number is a requirement? Having email? Having text? Or should nothing be a requirement? What's the difference with whatsapp?

Again, all cultural, if you live in a country where this isn't so, then you don't have this problem.

As for a school - it's never a requirement, but unless you send your child to a very charedi school in Israel, much of the communication will be by whatsapp. So it's not required you join, but if you don't, you will miss a ton of very important messages.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:00 pm

enneamom wrote:

"No non-WhatsApp users need apply"?

Wow.

It doesn't need to be said. Because outside the very charedi world, it's as obvious in Israel that you will have whatsapp as it is obvious you will have email.

Not having whatsapp would make you a non-team member and would make it very difficult to work with you in the majority of businesses here (again, outside the very charedi world).

Goody2shoes

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:01 pm

Crookshanks wrote:

Who w as s the one to decide which app is considered professional? As far as I know, all the big professional companys in my field of work use WhatsApp daily

amother

Honeydew

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:05 pm

Crookshanks wrote:

Companies set their own requirements for resources and tools. The employees are expected to comply, regardless of their opinions of it.

enneamom

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:06 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

Companies set their own requirements for resources and tools. The employees are expected to comply, regardless of their opinions of it.

Does the company provide WhatsApp-equipped phones for their employees?

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:10 pm

Incidentally, I just picked up my kid from tiyul shnati (their big overnight school trip). The scheduled arrival time kept changing because of traffic, and also they stopped off somewhere to take a break. Every half hour they updated it to a different time.
Imagine I had to pass all these updates on to another mother? Does this seem reasonable to you?

So yes, if you choose not to have whatsapp, you can't register your kid to a school that does all its communication on whatsapp and expect someone to be your messenger.

singleagain

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:11 pm

enneamom wrote:

Does the company provide WhatsApp-equipped phones for their employees?

Voice to text

I remember my dad was provided for a phone when his company had blackberries but recently in the last years of that he was there which was like in the mid 2010s they had a BYOD initiative to save the company money BYOD being bring your own device so because smartphones are more or less part of daily living you probably won't have a company rationalize the need to pay for it

Crookshanks

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:12 pm

singleagain wrote:

This doesn't apply to a large swath of people. Maybe not where you live, or with the people you interact with, but it's very normal where I'm from.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:13 pm

enneamom wrote:

Does the company provide WhatsApp-equipped phones for their employees?

No. Does the company provide you with professional work clothes? Or with a regular phone? Or with a computer to read email, if you don't have a smart phone? Or with a car to get to work?

Did companies of the past provide you with a landline?

Some things are just basics that companies expect you to have these days. You don't have it, you don't get hired. Pretty simple.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:15 pm

Crookshanks wrote:

This doesn't apply to a large swath of people. Maybe not where you live, or with the people you interact with, but it's very normal where I'm from.

So people for whom smartphones are not part of daily living are much, much more limited in their job options. It is what it is.

singleagain

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:18 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

So people for whom smartphones are not part of daily living are much, much more limited in their job options. It is what it is.

Yup. This. If smartphones are not part of your daily living then you need to get a job where they will not expect a smartphone.

enneamom

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:21 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

You keep on saying "outside the very chareidi world". So the people you're discussing don't have a problem with any social media, regardless of whether it's WhatsApp or something else.

I believe the topic under discussion on this thread was: why people who don't use social media think WhatsApp is bad.

I personally don't have a strong opinion about WhatsApp either way, but you can't move the argument to a demographic which it was never about.

Edited for typo

Last edited by enneamom on Mon, May 31 2021, 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, May 31 2021, 3:24 pm

enneamom wrote:

You keep on saying "outside the very chareidi world". So the people you're discussing don't have a problem with any social media, regardless of whether it's WhatsApp or something else.

I believe the topic under discussion on their thread was why people who don't use social media think WhatsApp is bad.

I personally don't have a strong opinion about WhatsApp either way, but you can't move the argument to a demographic which it was never about.

I am talking about the part of that demographic that does want to get a job in a non-charedi place or send a child to a non-charedi school. Some people think that it should be their right to not have whatsapp and still be involved in places that do use whatsapp. It just doesn't work.