"Look before you leap" pdf file w Rabbonim warning about Va

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amother

Brunette

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 1:27 am

HealthCoach wrote:

Quote:

I'm good. I actually have access to plenty of sources (first-hand sources) myself. But how can you state something is a fact with such certainty if you don't have the first-hand knowledge yourself?

That is one of two things in the pdf that I didn’t already know before reading. Since they told the truth about everything else, I am sure this too is true. The other thing I didn’t know beforehand is interestingly enough, the list of rabbanim, since my other sources were secular.

How do you know they told the truth about everything else? Were you able to get the actual evidence about anything in there? This pdf is a bunch of hysterics with no science or facts - how on earth can you confirm the facts.

"paralysis', 'allergies', etc.

Are you perhaps talking about a different document? Because there isn't any way to ascertain anything based on this one.

amother

Brunette

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 1:36 am

HealthCoach wrote:

Quote:

Did you actually read the vaccine testing document, or are you just repeating what a third unknown party translated according to their own interpretations. Pfizer and any pharmaceutical research company always do research and testing for any feasible possibility. It's part of protocol, it isn't strange at all. 50% of the population are women, and this vaccine was to be required to be given to all in a specific time range. So after the original safety protocols for the basics of human safety, the next round is to follow up with safety checks for probable situations. Pregnancies, conceptions is high on that secondary list.

So no, it's not strange at all.

Please provide that scientific explanation. I would honestly love to see it. The ones I have seen have no scientific basis.

And as for your last point, cycles being affected can be due to other correlations, such as immune response, stress, etc. The science behind the vaccine makes it really unlikely that it would have a connection to fertility. As it stands so far, COVID itself has cause many issues to pregnancies. The vaccine doesn't seem to have numbers even close to it. It is only six months in, but the number of new pregnancies since doesn't seem to have been affected.

I did not double check the Pfizer document, since much of what I read in the pdf, I have read elsewhere. Since for me most of the doc was fact checked in this way, I am sure that if you fact check the page number it will be accurate.

What is very strange is that it would be the first vaccine where someone can experience vaccine side effects if they are not vaccinated, but exposed to someone else that was. Turns out there is a John Hopkins paper on this, but this is new in general and new to me. I find it strange but unfortunately it’s reality.

I edited my post above with a link to an article. The email address in the pdf can surely provide you with articles that more directly answer your questions.

The number of miscarriages in first 2 trimesters after vaccines is significant.

I haven't come across one fact yet. Please post.

Out of curiosity, are you aware of the significant number of stillborns and miscarriages in women who had Covid - even the mild asymptomatic ones? That can easily be fact checked by talking to the ob-gyns

Your other statement is also not factual at all. Point # 1 - There are quite a few vaccines that have the possibility of making others around you sick (MMR, chicken pox..). The vaccines that contain live but weakened viruses can shed and be passed on to others, especially immunocompromised people. So that's another 'fact' of yours that's wrong. Point #2 - vaccines that contain dead viruses, or no virus at all (as is the case with the CV*), can't be passed on to anyone. It's either dead or non-existent.

(The CV vaccine doesn't contain the virus, all it contains is a genetic strip for one protein of it. That protein is not pathogenic and is not a contagion.)

HealthCoach

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 1:41 am

Quote:

Why did your doctor give you the document to read?

I asked him some questions about covid vaccine shedding.

HealthCoach

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 1:47 am

Quote:

Your other statement is also not factual at all. Point # 1 - There are quite a few vaccines that have the possibility of making others around you sick (MMR, chicken pox..). The vaccines that contain live but weakened viruses can shed and be passed on to others, especially immunocompromised people. So that's another 'fact' of yours that's wrong. Point #2 - vaccines that contain dead viruses, or no virus at all (as is the case with the CV*), can't be passed on to anyone. It's either dead or non-existent.

In those cases one would catch the virus that the vaccine protects against. In this case, one catches the adverse effects of the vaccine, ie bleeding (not covid). In this case the shedding is of the spike protein which is not a live virus. Here is the John Hopkins article that explains that this is a new concept. That way if someone chooses not to get the jab, they can still be immunized against their will. I’m not saying that was the intention here, but it is happening, and Pfizer knew it was a possibility.

https://chemicalviolence.com/2.....html#

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 1:56 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

Threads like this make me want to go OTD. Seriously,

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

You are seriously putting me off yidishkite. I am generally very strong in my yiddishkite,

Denim, would you please look yourself in the mirror and think again, are you seriously strong in your yiddiskeit?! If something like this can put you "offf yiddishkeit" you seem to be struggling... perhaps you should seek guidance...
Just remember noone can make u be a tzadik nor a rasha other than YOURSELF so don't try blaming the world [or Rabbanim] for whatever choice you make in life.

HealthCoach

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 1:57 am

Quote:

Are you perhaps talking about a different document? Because there isn't any way to ascertain anything based on this one.

There is an email address and links. They are happy to help you verify and point you to articles. Is there an email address for questions on yours?

LovesHashem

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 3:17 am

Lovable wrote:

Hmm.... I hear you. But I dare to disagree, since if that would have been the case, many more people would be vaccinating - at least in my circles....
I guess you dont have the full list of rabbonim around the world who are knowledgeable in the medical field

Either way that's not the point. My point was that not every Rav (most rabbanim actually) don't have enough knowledge to give medical advice. Just like most Rabbanim should not be your therapy either.

Now there are rabbanim that specialize in mental health, in medical stuff, just like certain rabbanim specialize with infertility shailos, or other difficult shailos - but this is not just any shul Rabbi you can rely on.

Actually a good Rabbi is one who tells you when you should go to a Rav with more expertise for specific shailos.

southernbubby

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 8:06 am

According to the Blumenkrantz guide to Pesach, some forms of alternative healing are not allowed according to halacha.

amother

Brunette

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 8:52 am

HealthCoach wrote:

Quote:

Are you perhaps talking about a different document? Because there isn't any way to ascertain anything based on this one.

There is an email address and links. They are happy to help you verify and point you to articles. Is there an email address for questions on yours?

Why would my articles need one? The ones I use to educate myself with are research papers, scientific studies and peer reviewed articles. Those list the science, methodology, data source and all pertinent information within the article. I don't educate myself with papers that rely on religious leaders, propaganda, fear mongering and 'sources available upon request' to form opinions and decisions.

amother

Maroon

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 9:37 am

Lovable wrote:

Those of us with Emunas Chachomim believe that our Rabbis know better than those with just modern day science knowledge, because they have a vast knowledge of Torah combined with knowledge modern day science

Hm... now which emoticon should I use? There are just too many that apply.

Definitely this Twisted Evil

Obviously this Hiding

and

and

Totally

And of course this Banging head

Actually this too Puke

This is not against rabanim this is against people that don’t understand how rabanim work.
Dh and I discuss major decisions with our rav because he has more Torah and more knowledge than us. But our rav will tell us to ask our dr. Sometimes he will help us medically by saying “ ask the dr so and so” he’s not telling us what to do, but he’s very smart so he knows what to ask based on his VAST KNOWLEDGE, TORAH GENIUS, AND YEARS AND YEARS OF DEALING WITH THESE THINGS.

Lovable

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 10:26 am

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

Hm... now which emoticon should I use? There are just too many that apply.

Definitely this Twisted Evil

Obviously this Hiding

and

and

Totally

And of course this Banging head

Actually this too Puke

You make me laugh because by reading the second half of your post, I see that we are on the same page! So your excessive use of (inappropriate) emoticons is not applicable
The bolded tells me that you and I do the same - ask our Rav! and then follow through WHAT HE SAID. simple

amother

Beige

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 10:37 am

Lovable wrote:

Can you explain to me how they have a vast understanding of modern day science?

farm

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 11:32 am

HealthCoach wrote:

Quote:

I'll admit it. I just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading that (pathetic excuse for an) article which offers a sum total of zero facts and pure innuendo sensationalist fear mongering drivel. A rant against "the scientists" who are involved in eugenics without even an attempt to offer a shred of evidence in support of it.

amother

Copper

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 12:00 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So why is Hatzalah and the frum medical community saying otherwise?

Because they needed to politically heard from the higher ups but barely any of them got the vaccine.

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 12:48 pm

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

1. Rabbanim are not doctors or scientists and don't have any understanding about vaccines, their effectiveness or risks.

2. For every rav that says not to take the vaccine there are 2 that say to take it. So what would a list of rabbanim suggesting not to take it actually prove?

I haven't yet read through the entire thread, so forgive me if someone else already responded.

1. Many rabbanim are great people with very sharp brains and are therefore able to understand very very much when they research something, even without medical or scientific degrees.

2. I'm just wondering regarding the ones who say to take it or not to take it, how many did their own research, looked at data, spoke to different experts, and then gave their recommendation? I personally know a number who did this and then started recommending against it, I would love to know names of rabbanim who did this and say to give it.

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 12:57 pm

southernbubby wrote:

According to the Blumenkrantz guide to Pesach, some forms of alternative healing are not allowed according to halacha.

Of course some aren't. But some are. There is a really interesting sefer called Alternative Medicine in Halachah by Rabbi Rephoel Szmerla which explains some (and it has haskamos from some pretty big name people).

southernbubby

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 1:00 pm

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

But my point in bringing it up is that people who don't vaccinate often rely on alternative medicine which has it's own set of rabbonim who don't support it.

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 1:03 pm

southernbubby wrote:

But my point in bringing it up is that people who don't vaccinate often rely on alternative medicine which has it's own set of rabbonim who don't support it.

Or, they're relying on alternative medicine which is not an issue. I don't think anyone, rabbi or not, will give a blanket statement that anything under the umbrella of 'alternative medicine' is a problem.

southernbubby

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 1:19 pm

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

Right but even with the controversial Covid vaccine, it appears that the rabbonim who have determined it to be hazardous would accept it for someone who clearly needs it for medical reasons. At least that's what I think.

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jun 03 2021, 1:23 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I think they'd have to ask the rabbi that, not assume.

Although if someone thinks the vaccination is hazardous, I would think that it would be more hazardous if someone is medically compromised, not less hazardous. But that's just me.

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