They can say No | Imamother

Chayalle

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 3:43 pm

I've seen this idea posted on these boards as well as played out in real life: People feel they can ask any favor they want. The person they are asking the favor from can always say no, right? So there's nothing wrong with asking.

Do you agree with this?

Consider the scenario I am thinking of (true scenario): I know someone who had a child in an out of the hospital with a medical situation. Their relative asked if she can come to them for Y"T with her family (two adults and two kids). She felt it was okay to ask, because if it's too much for them, they can always say no. But the person who was asked was hurt. She felt that the question, and the asked for invite, displayed insensitivity to the very difficult situation she was dealing with.

This is just one type of example. I wonder what people think of this. Are there times when asking for a favor is inappropriate, or is it always okay to ask?

OOTforlife

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 3:46 pm

If the asker wants advice, then I say no, it's not always OK to ask. Consider the circumstances carefully and whether you are being sensitive and considerate, and also try to avoid putting people on the spot.

If the ask-ee wants advice, then I say the ask-ee should not expect the asker to be considerate and should take responsibility for saying yes/no themselves, without resentment.

Blessing1

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 3:46 pm

Frum jews should never feel bad asking a favor from others. Chessed is after all a pillar of our world.
We obviously need to use our common sense when asking & shouldn't take advantage of others. (Like if you asked someone for the same favor countless times and they always decline, don't ask again. Or if we know a person is not in a position to do a certain favor, don't ask.) It's on us to know when to say yes or no to a favor. But we can always ask.

Last edited by Blessing1 on Tue, Jun 15 2021, 4:23 pm; edited 2 times in total

sequoia

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 3:46 pm

Oh this is so unbearably painful for me.

Someone said I had “chutzpah” and wrote a FB post bullying me because I was asking them for help. I don’t think of myself as a chutzpadnik person. I’m disabled. I thought the other person understood that.

Crookshanks

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 3:49 pm

I don't mind people asking me for favors, if I can't help, I'll say no. But when the same annoying person asks you for the same favor 5 times a week, my tolerance for said person and favors go way down.
A healthy person, asking for a favor who is not trying to take advantage of you, can always ask.

enneamom

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 3:49 pm

sequoia wrote:

That stinks. Hug

Chayalle

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 3:51 pm

sequoia wrote:

I'm so sorry, I had no intention to cause you pain. I'm just looking to hear both sides of the coin, what people think.

Hug

OOTforlife

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 3:56 pm

Also, the idea that people can always say no is not equally true across cultures. In some cultures it is very offensive and shameful to reject a request for food or hospitality. The overall culture in the US is more individualistic and supportive of boundaries, especially among upper middle class professional types, but not everyone is like that.

sequoia

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 4:07 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I'm so sorry, I had no intention to cause you pain. I'm just looking to hear both sides of the coin, what people think.

Hug

It’s okay, I’m still trying to process what happened but you didn’t cause me pain, they did.

I was even going to post here on ima about it — are repeated requests for help “chutzpah”?

It seems we’re sent a lot of mixed messages in society — both “if you need help, ask” and “don’t bother others”.

BatyaEsther

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 4:11 pm

I hate saying no. To me it is a sign of weakness or unwillingness to help. Do not ask me for a favor unless you thought about it and need one. I will not say no, but don’t put me in a difficult situation needlessly and don’t take advantage of me because you can.

If someone asks I assume they are imposing on me because they have no other / better option and it is wrong for me to say no. Don’t ask unless you need to, otherwise it is taking advantage.

Sprinkles1

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 4:20 pm

Some people have a hard time saying 'no'.

So if the other person is such a type, I wouldnt ask unless its really important.

But if I know the other person would be honest and tell me if its hard for them, I wouldnt feel bad asking at all.

HonesttoGod

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 4:54 pm

I think it goes both ways.
There’s nothing wrong with saying no and we also have to think about who/what we’re asking.

Like asking someone who’s kid is in and out of hospital with cancer if they can host you is just tone deaf. Asking someone who’s a sahm if she can watch your kid so you can run to the grocery, that’s fine she can say no if she can’t.

cupcake123

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 5:18 pm

I agree with everyone in theory. However, I have a very hard time saying no and always feel like I have to come up with a valid enough reason. I'm working on it.

mamaleh

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 5:29 pm

I have found myself in situations where I think it might be wrong to ask (similar- though not exactly the same- as OP’s example) but I am really desperate or it would really help me a lot & I don’t have any equally good options. What I do is preface my request with ‘I am assuming the answer is no, but I don’t want you to hear later that I was looking for this & be upset that I didn’t ask, because it would have worked for you, so…’ This makes it easier for them to say no if it doesn’t work but leaves open the possibility that I don’t have all the info. I’ve gotten a number of (honest) surprise yesses.

In OP’s example, perhaps it would be helpful to have more adults around, if she ends up in the hospital for Shabbos at the last minute or perhaps her other kids could use some extra attention.

I would say, feel free to ask, but if the circumstances make it likely (or even possible) that it would be a strain for them to say yes, make it VERY easy for them to say no.

dankbar

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 5:33 pm

No, just no! A family invited themselves over to another family in crisis?
If it would be the other way around, I understand & if other person is not available to host that shabbos ok, she can say no & maybe invite her another time.

Crookshanks

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 5:37 pm

cupcake123 wrote:

I agree with everyone in theory. However, I have a very hard time saying no and always feel like I have to come up with a valid enough reason. I'm working on it.

Practice saying no without a reason. I'm sorry, that doesn't work for me today. If you feel confident, they'll believe you.

myself

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 5:46 pm

There's no clear cut answer but IMO it's only fair if the person can truly say no.
If the asker is someone with power or authority, that automatically disqualifies them from a big ask.

southernbubby

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 5:46 pm

mamaleh wrote:

I agree.

chanatron1000

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 5:48 pm

If people can't ask for fear that the person would be unable to say no, then they can't ask when the person would gladly say yes, unless they're mind readers.