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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
Would you go camping on Shabbos?
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| YES |
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37% |
[ 39 ] |
| NO |
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54% |
[ 57 ] |
| Not Sure |
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8% |
[ 9 ] |
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| Total Votes : 105 |
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HennaZ
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 Thu, Jun 17 2021, 11:18 pm
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Mother of 3, recently was invited on a camping trip by my DH friend. His wife says they go all the time and it so nice to be out in the woods, I'm worried about being Mechalel Shabbos or carrying outside the Eruv. Has anyone gone tent camping on Shabbos? Is this something Frum people do?
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DrMom
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 11:21 pm
It seems like it would require significant advanced planning, but why wouldn't it be allowed? The Tanach is full of righteous people who lived in tents.
I know plenty of frum people who do this.
Why not ask your DH's friend for details?
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essie14
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Thu, Jun 17 2021, 11:55 pm
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yes, it requires significant planning but I know lots of frum people who have gone camping over shabbat.
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Teomima
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 12:01 am
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Growing up in Israel I was part of the religious scouts movement. Every summer we'd have camp which means we'd head out to the woods with nothing but hundreds of narrow wooden logs and miles of rope and would build our accommodations from scratch. No tents, no plumbing. The few religious troops (among dozens of secular scouts troops) would set up in close proximity to each other and build a shared shul space. Meanwhile a group would set out to run some of the rope high up in the trees, surrounding the area our dati troops were camped out in. We made our own eruv!
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agreer
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 12:15 am
Sounds AWFUL.
Mainstream frum people don't do this because it's not kavodik to shabbos. No minyanim, no sefer torah? It's definitely not l'chatchila.
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BatyaEsther
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 12:18 am
Is the question can one go or would I go? You can, but I would not. Not for halachic reasons but because to me as a grown woman who enjoys comforts, why in the world would I want to?!?
You might convince me on a Tuesday with promise of a camp fire and marshmallows, but Shabbos with no flashlights to read my book or even more so to see where I am bathrooming in the woods- nah.
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DrMom
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 12:35 am
| agreer wrote: | Sounds AWFUL.
Mainstream frum people don't do this because it's not kavodik to shabbos. No minyanim, no sefer torah? It's definitely not l'chatchila. |
Plenty of DL people do this here in Israel. DL are pretty mainstream around here.
If you go with several families, you can have a minyan. There are campgrounds at many field schools where there is a synagogue onsite.
Last edited by DrMom on Fri, Jun 18 2021, 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ima Piano
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 12:35 am
| HennaZ wrote: | | Mother of 3, recently was invited on a camping trip by my DH friend. His wife says they go all the time and it so nice to be out in the woods, I'm worried about being Mechalel Shabbos or carrying outside the Eruv. Has anyone gone tent camping on Shabbos? Is this something Frum people do? |
My friend does it all the time.
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Elfrida
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 1:00 am
We used to camp (in France) for two weeks every summer. Learn the halachos and consult with a Rav about how to make an eruv around your camping area.
We used to make a barbecue Friday afternoon and the cover it with a foil blech to keep the food warm for Friday night. Shabbos lunch was normally a cold meal, but if you have acssess to electricity you should be able to arrange for some kind of hot food.
We lit a lot of candles Friday night for light. Shabbos afternoon we would watch the sun set and the stars come out while eating, talking and singing in the growing dusk.
It probably means you'll have to daven without a minyan or leining.
Check the toilet facilities are easily accessible, and bear in mind that they might be outside your eruv.
Learn the exact distance for tchum Shabbos - you can't go further than that beyond your eruv. Walking that distance and counting the steps can be a fun activity for Shabbos afternoon.
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SYA
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 1:10 am
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It is halachically allowed. I have friends who do it all summer. They need to plan in advance. There's a minyan, Torah, Eruv...
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5
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jerusalem90
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 1:17 am
I voted no because I personally wouldn't want to (because I don't think I'd like camping anyway, but especially not on a Shabbat where you couldn't drive home if something came up like a massive mosquito swarm) but I believe that it is allowed.
The only way I'd consider camping on Shabbat would be if it were in someone's backyard and we could go inside if needed.
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Iymnok
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 1:19 am
My uncle told the rabbi who had recently been hired that in the Pacific Northwest you have to camp. The rabbi said that he was working all week and couldn’t camp. The only time he had was Shabbos. My uncle reserved 10 adjacent camp sites, convinced a minyan to come, got a 5gal propane tank to keep the food hot, set up a kosher eiruv and brought the seder torah. 33 people came. My uncle is not frum, but he asked about everything abf everyone had a wonderful Shabbos.
It has become a tradition and they have been going for over 20 years.
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Teomima
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 1:28 am
| BatyaEsther wrote: | Is the question can one go or would I go? You can, but I would not. Not for halachic reasons but because to me as a grown woman who enjoys comforts, why in the world would I want to?!?
You might convince me on a Tuesday with promise of a camp fire and marshmallows, but Shabbos with no flashlights to read my book or even more so to see where I am bathrooming in the woods- nah. |
No one finds camping comfortable, but you go for the experience. With little kids especially, it's fun and exciting and different for them. I actually really like the calm and quiet of camping on shabbat. You can sit and read, talk, hike, enjoy the beauty of your surroundings... it's how our forefathers experienced shabbat, and it's an insight into a way of living we've all but forgotten thanks to modern technology. There's no other way to really give our kids that experience without going off the grid.
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essie14
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 2:04 am
| agreer wrote: | Sounds AWFUL.
Mainstream frum people don't do this because it's not kavodik to shabbos. No minyanim, no sefer torah? It's definitely not l'chatchila. |
Mainstream frum people do this in Israel all the time, they make sure they have 10 males above bar mitzvah and bring a sefer torah. It's really beautiful.
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14
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Elfrida
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 2:08 am
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My brother in law takes his boys camping in the park down the road at random weekends throughout the summer. Attendance at shul is required, or they don't get to camp next time. The girls (much younger) walk over to visit them and play on Shabbos afternoon.
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imasinger
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 6:36 am
We go camping every summer. Sometimes, we've had the opportunity to be away for more than a week, then, we camp over Shabbos.
Yes, unless you can get a minyan together to camp with you, the guys are davening byachid. But many people will do so on vacation anyway.
We have a set of poles to make a campsite eruv, it's not difficult. And we have ways to handle food storage to keep it accessible to us for Shabbos, but safe from animals.
We generally find that if we use a bathroom in the evening, we can make it through the night in Friday and not need to go in the dark. These days, it's more of an issue, if you stay at a site with flush toilets, that the light comes on automatically when the door opens, so we watch for that. We also talk to the site host about leaving a labeled box of tissues or pre-ripped wipes in each bathroom over Shabbos.
If you've never davened just around sunrise or sunset, overlooking the trees or water, hearing the sounds of nature, breathing the clean air, you're missing out on really feeling "mah rabu ma'asecha Hashem."
If you've never sat around a campfire with your marshmallows and hot cocoa, at the end of a long day with a challenging hike, and the sense of accomplishment, connection, and delight, you're missing out.
If you've never felt the pride of watching your kids put up their own tents, the cosyness of cuddling next to DH in a sleeping bag, seen the interest in a child's face as they catch a frog or watch a butterfly, you're missing out.
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Mermaidinexile
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 6:43 am
| agreer wrote: | Sounds AWFUL.
Mainstream frum people don't do this because it's not kavodik to shabbos. No minyanim, no sefer torah? It's definitely not l'chatchila. |
Lol. Excuse me?? Plenty of "mainstream frum people" DO INDEED go camping on shabbos in a very l'chatchila way...and not just in Israel. The times I've gone in the upstate new York area, there were minyanim with sifrei Torah, lots of Torah and singing, and active well planned shabbos situation with eruv etc. SO....
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moonstone
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 7:38 am
| Teomima wrote: | | Growing up in Israel I was part of the religious scouts movement. Every summer we'd have camp which means we'd head out to the woods with nothing but hundreds of narrow wooden logs and miles of rope and would build our accommodations from scratch. No tents, no plumbing. The few religious troops (among dozens of secular scouts troops) would set up in close proximity to each other and build a shared shul space. Meanwhile a group would set out to run some of the rope high up in the trees, surrounding the area our dati troops were camped out in. We made our own eruv! |
Yes, my kids were in the religious scouts and some of their camping trips were definitely over shabbat. They really enjoyed it. And I think we're pretty "mainstream frum people." 😏
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animeme
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 7:45 am
| imasinger wrote: | We go camping every summer. Sometimes, we've had the opportunity to be away for more than a week, then, we camp over Shabbos.
Yes, unless you can get a minyan together to camp with you, the guys are davening byachid. But many people will do so on vacation anyway.
We have a set of poles to make a campsite eruv, it's not difficult. And we have ways to handle food storage to keep it accessible to us for Shabbos, but safe from animals.
We generally find that if we use a bathroom in the evening, we can make it through the night in Friday and not need to go in the dark. These days, it's more of an issue, if you stay at a site with flush toilets, that the light comes on automatically when the door opens, so we watch for that. We also talk to the site host about leaving a labeled box of tissues or pre-ripped wipes in each bathroom over Shabbos.
If you've never davened just around sunrise or sunset, overlooking the trees or water, hearing the sounds of nature, breathing the clean air, you're missing out on really feeling "mah rabu ma'asecha Hashem."
If you've never sat around a campfire with your marshmallows and hot cocoa, at the end of a long day with a challenging hike, and the sense of accomplishment, connection, and delight, you're missing out.
If you've never felt the pride of watching your kids put up their own tents, the cosyness of cuddling next to DH in a sleeping bag, seen the interest in a child's face as they catch a frog or watch a butterfly, you're missing out. |
What do you do if someone needs to bring things along to the bathroom? How do you see at night in the tents if you need to?
And how to realistically avoid all the muktzah and melachah problems (playing with sticks and rocks, catching frogs and bugs, taking the kids outside of your eruv to entertain them or going for a walk without water or snacks, being able to take things and throw them, etc)?
I went camping on Shabbos as a child and these are the main problems I remember. We were helped by the fact that we went as a group and one family brought a camper and left their lights on.
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imasinger
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Fri, Jun 18 2021, 8:09 am
Great questions!
| animeme wrote: | | What do you do if someone needs to bring things along to the bathroom? |
We have to plan ahead, and leave stuff in the bathroom before candle lighting. That's for sanitary supplies kinds of things. Toothbrushing is done on site.
| Quote: | | How do you see at night in the tents if you need to? |
Our strategy is to crack glow sticks just before lighting. They're easier to cover up than flashlights left on all day.
| Quote: | | And how to realistically avoid all the muktzah and melachah problems (playing with sticks and rocks, catching frogs and bugs, taking the kids outside of your eruv to entertain them or going for a walk without water or snacks, being able to take things and throw them, etc)? |
We can't go for long walks on Shabbos anyway, or we'd risk going outside the techum, so that avoids the last part. We sometimes go for short walks. We read books; play lots of games in the tents or at the picnic table; we talk; maybe sing. We're busier with meal setup and takedown, since food needs proper storage. We educate kids over the age of chinuch about what is and isn't allowed, and distract younger ones without obsessing overmuch, just as it might happen in a park or backyard.
| Quote: | | I went camping on Shabbos as a child and these are the main problems I remember. We were helped by the fact that we went as a group and one family brought a camper and left their lights on. |
Sounds like fun!
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