Lakewood bubble | Imamother

small bean

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 7:52 am

amother [ Brass ] wrote:

My point is not that I think I am so diverse or a lot having a competition for diversity. It is sad that that is how the statement is being read. The fact that that is how you are reading the situation says a lot of not positive things about the reader. My point is that if one thinks Lakewood is diverse, that is so absurd and so indicative of how close minded some people are.

I still don't get your point. Sorry.

You commented on what diverse means to you. But in lakewood it's the same thing. It doesn't mean diversity if yoy allow your kids to play with non jewish neighbors. Your commenting on diversity or so I thouht as that's what this thread is about.

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 7:58 am

amother [ Brass ] wrote:

IOW, your opinion is that Lakewood is not diverse. Anyone who disagrees with you is closeminded, and it says something negative about them.

Wow. That sounds really open-minded. NOT.

amother

Tuberose

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:03 am

So diversity only means knowing non Jews and ppl to the “left” of you (hate that term but didn’t want to use modern either).

It doesn’t mean knowing ppl chassidish (all sects) sefardi, lubavitch, yeshivish

Is it close minded when a frum person meets a chassidish person for the first time and is shocked at something in their life?
But that is not open minded. Bec chassidim are “close minded”.

According to this thread You are only diverse if you are aware of ppl more worldly.

I grew up in Baltimore which ppl call diverse and no we didn’t play with our non Jewish neighbors. We were as nice to them as we are in lkwd. None of my friends did in Cleveland, Florida, la, Chicago, Toronto. Does that make us all non-diverse? Are you only diverse from the 5 towns or Teaneck?

amother

PlumPink

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:03 am

Chayalle wrote:

I guess it's coming to Lakewood huh.

I don't see this in Bais Faiga. All of my girls have been in mixed classes, with a spectrum of very yeshivish, not so yeshivish, and working/JPF.

Bais Faiga used to have a Yiddish class and an English class (to teitch chumash). The yiddish class ended up being an alias for the more yeshivish class. Was that stopped?

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:09 am

amother [ PlumPink ] wrote:

Bais Faiga used to have a Yiddish class and an English class (to teitch chumash). The yiddish class ended up being an alias for the more yeshivish class. Was that stopped?

I've been a BF parent for close to 18 years and never heard of this.

They teitch in yiddish till 6th grade, and then switch to English. In all classes.

amother

Gardenia

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:18 am

amother [ Broom ] wrote:

Here’s a different perspective. I live in a large community that would be considered OOT as it’s not in NY or NJ. Recently, some of my nieces from Lakewood came to visit. And there were so many things in our community that shocked them. Girls wearing nail polish to school, girls wearing short socks, frum girls with smartphones. . . They were especially surprised my kid’s schools actually assign secular novels as homework assignments. “You’re allowed to read non jewish books???”
So yes, I have to assume that your kids are growing up in a bubble.

Thank you. And this was my point with my close relative who chose lakewood to specifically keep their kids in the bubble and away from *influences*. The ones who think riding the subway is untznius. Yes they may be "extreme" but they represent a like minded group. So for those who Hugged that post, just know that those people are VERY REAL. They are living I m a bubble and will continue to live in a bubble ad bi'as go'el. And yes, they keep at arms length relatives (as in, please come to us for shabbos but we will never go to you) who have smartphones, wear denim, short socks, nail polish etc. So please don't pretend you don't know that there is a solid chunk (maybe majority) of bubble- dweller ln lakewood. None of them know or ever hang out with ANYONE MO (even right-wing MO)

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:21 am

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

And that's exactly our point. Just because you know some people like this does not make them a majority of Lakewood.

amother

Tuberose

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:26 am

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

So maybe I’m not diverse bec I know no one like this (the ny subway is a common chol hamoed activity). And I run in really yeshivish RW (non chassidish) circles.

amother

Gardenia

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:44 am

amother [ Tuberose ] wrote:

So maybe I’m not diverse bec I know no one like this (the ny subway is a common chol hamoed activity). And I run in really yeshivish RW (non chassidish) circles.

Just curious- do your kids have MO friends? Would you be concerned if they did? Would you spend shabbos with your (maybe hypothetical) MO relatives? Genuinely asking

amother

Crystal

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:49 am

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

Just curious- do your kids have MO friends? Would you be concerned if they did? Would you spend shabbos with your (maybe hypothetical) MO relatives? Genuinely asking

Different poster.

It depends. I have MO relatives who are super-respectful of our needs. They buy CY when we come, their Kashrus standards amazing, and yes, we spend Shabbos with them and are very close. We are scheduled to be together, either by us or them, very soon.

But not everyone has this. Alot depends on the relationship.

amother

Gardenia

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:53 am

amother [ Crystal ] wrote:

Nice. We are the MO relatives and always buy CY and use bodek when are yeshivish friends come...but our Lakewood close relatives would never come nor send their teens here for shabbos. Judging from everyone's reactions here, maybe it's this family...but tbh their kids go to very well-known Lakewood schools..and they VERY into doing what everyone else does...I always assumed it was a Lakewood thing...so who knows

amother

Wine

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:57 am

I am from Toronto, which I consider a diverse community, like most out of town communities. I think what makes it diverse is because the Jewish (religious) infrastructure is set up to accommodate a wide range of people. For example, there is a significant MO population, Russian population, South African population, Sephardi population, right-wing yeshiva population, and baalebatish population, as well as an, unfortunately, shrinking chassidish population. Now if you are part of the Bais Yaakov community, as I was, you aren't necessarily exposed to a lot of different people in school and the limudei kodesh teacher body is pretty homogeneous, but your neighbourhood is likely filled with all types of people. You likely regularly come in contact with all types of people just by walking on the streets or shopping in the local stores. Many people also often have non-religious relatives, and when I was a student, it was not uncommon for my friend's grandmothers to be wearing pants and have their hair uncovered, though I assume things have changed since then as the younger generations have become more religious. I wouldn't consider the five towns to be as diverse as Toronto or a typical out of town community. From what I have seen, it seems to be mostly comprised of varying levels of MO and yeshivish families.

Lakewood can absolutely not compare in terms of diversity. No, not everyone in Lakewood are walking clones of each other, but the overarching community is right-wing yeshivish and the city has an underlying value system that would not be able to sustain in diverse communities simply because there are so many different people with different values. Toronto is also clearly a non-Jewish city that hosts various Jewish communities, which altogether comprise a small percentage of the population.

amother

Crystal

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 8:59 am

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

hard to know.

My DD and my niece are VERY close. My kids think she's awesome (I do too, she's such a refined young lady.) She came with us on vacation. My kids have gone for Shabbos. I think my sibling is an amazing person (she does a tremendous amount of Chessed. I don't reach her toes.) My DH often learns with my nephew on the phone, he's a great kid and so smart and into learning, and yes MO.

Everyone's different...I'm sorry it doesn't work out better for you.

My family is middle-of-the-road Lakewood yeshivish. Maybe your family is more RW and not so confident, I don't know.

amother

Zinnia

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 9:39 am

amother [ Tuberose ] wrote:

I don’t think other cities l are more diverse.
Maybe more open. Maybe diff types. But not more types living together.

Here you have chassidish (all types), super yeshivish, yeshivish, working, jpf, sefardi (diff sects) all living together and davening together.

It may not be more modern diverse. Or secular diverse.
But what is the definition of diverse?
It’s not MO diverse.
But many MO communities don’t have the Mix I mentioned above.

I disagree. I grew up in the Twin Cities and the community there runs the gamut. St Louis Park alone you have it all.

amother

Tuberose

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 9:51 am

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

Just curious- do your kids have MO friends? Would you be concerned if they did? Would you spend shabbos with your (maybe hypothetical) MO relatives? Genuinely asking

No MO friends.
But chassidish friends who mainly speak Yiddish with long peyos.
And sefardi friends who speak with strong accent and serve all the traditional foods. They hear stories of Iraq and Moraccon Jewish life first hand.
And yeshivish friends whose fathers are still sitting and learning 20 yrs+
And an israeli - but they don’t hold of MO. They are just Jewish.
So I consider their friend base diverse. .

Maybe my brother could be considered MO. I don’t like labels. We get together all the time. Live in diff cities. Our girls are great friends. They spend a few Shabbosim together by my parents during vacations. At the end of the day we share the same values.
He accommodates our food when we come. No problem. (Like when they made a dairy simcha he set aside cholov yisraoel and pad yisroel food for us. Or when he bbq for us will buy checked veggies and pas bread.)
Our lives are very different but who cares. When he comes to visit me he always stops by my yeshivish in laws to say hello and they love seeing him (in his shorts and knitted yarmulkes and everything).
I come from a more mixed community. And many of us have all gone so many directions. I don’t know anyone who has a problem going back home and getting together with their family.

Crookshanks

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 9:52 am

amother [ Broom ] wrote:

Check, check, and check. Seriously? This is the marker of living out of town?
Rolling Eyes

mha3484

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 9:54 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

I live in Chicago and I feel there are a lot of similarities to this.

amother

PlumPink

Wed, Jun 23 2021, 9:54 am

Chayalle wrote:

I've been a BF parent for close to 18 years and never heard of this.

They teitch in yiddish till 6th grade, and then switch to English. In all classes.

OK, I guess it changed. My friend (mid-30s) said she was put in the yiddish class even though her parents didn't necessarily like the yiddish teitch so that she would end up with the more yeshivish crowd.