Dd 12 gets into a rage with any discipline, adhd on meds

amother

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 7:54 pm

As an intro, please only respond if you have a child with similar issues. This is so far from a typical situation and typical parenting skills don't work here. I have quite a few other children kah for whom typical style discipline does work, and I know how to be firm and set limits. Again, no random advice please, only respond if you have personal experience with a child like this.

So......dd 12 has been very challenging always, very intense, strong emotions, huuuuge tantrums as toddler, etc. Fast forward to now, she has been diagnosed with adhd and is on guanfacine and ritalin. Things are bh soooo much better but still very very difficult.
One major issue is that she doesn't tolerate any form of discipline. It puts her into a rage and she can trash the house, hurt herself, hurt others, etc etc....
Obviously we have to say no sometimes, but always try to say it in a gentle way. Since she started on the guanfacine, a regular no will not send her into a rage usually bh.
But...tonight she did something very wrong and I had to be firm with her. She unlocked (using her fingernail) and opened the door when another sibling was in the bathroom. She knew the other child was there and was annoyed they weren't coming out and warned them if they don't come out in 10 seconds she will go in, and she did. (I only hear about this after from the sibling)
This is a strict rule in the house and everyone has been strongly warned that they are never allowed to do this.
So I was very firm with her and told her that it's never allowed and there will be a serious consequence. I didn't yell but I spoke firmly.
Well, now she got so so mad she is throwing everything in her room, breaking things, she tried opening the window to throw things out but I stopped her. I tried talking to her and she just yells calling me stupid etc, my husband tried talking to her and she just yells at him to go away and throws things at him....
It's so so so so hard... Her therapist doesn't have any real advice for when she gets like this.
Does anyone else have a situation like this? what do you do?
Eventually we get through it, but it's really really difficult and affects everyone.

amother

Stoneblue

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 8:32 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Have a child like this. Upped the guafacine and the game changer was Zoloft!! Lifesaver!!

amother

Stoneblue

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 8:51 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

She is actually on zoloft already lol...at least that is working, bh anxiety is gone.

That's great! Have you tried raising her zoloft? My daughter needed to be raised 4 times till the therapeutic levels were high enough in her system. Also she takes her zoloft at night and guafacine is split between morning and night. All guided by her neurologist who told us they are not sure why but have seen better results sometimes when zoloft taken at night.
I totally feel for you. We used to have to lock ourselves and other kids in our room because she was so out of control. It was very scary. We finally found a therapist who she connects with. It's so hard and unless you have a child like this very hard to understand. My daughter was also crazy tantrums as a toddler. It used to be literally walking on eggshells around her. And the worste part was she hated herself afterward. It was heartbreaking.
Hugs op!

amother

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 8:59 pm

amother [ Stoneblue ] wrote:

Wow, I can so relate to what you write. it feels so validating to have someone who understands.
Yes, we have locked the other kids with one parent in a room while other one just made sure she was safe while out of control...very scary. bh so much better since on the meds, but still difficult!

If her anxiety is completely controlled bh, would there be a purpose in raising the zoloft?
Would you mind sharing which neurologist and therapist you use?
Thank you!

amother

Peachpuff

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 9:07 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The P in Pandas is for Pediatric.

Regardless, this is not something that came suddenly, it's been the way she is literally since infancy.

Both the pediatric and acute onset clauses of the diagnostic criteria are kept intentionally tight for research purposes but don’t hold water in real life. Not saying this to provoke, only because I’m so grateful I stumbled on to this info myself.

amother

Lightgreen

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 9:44 pm

amother [ Peachpuff ] wrote:

Same situation here. So grateful someone mentioned pandas to us. We rarely see that kind of rage behavior since treating Bh Bh.
And my daughter's neurologist is now treating patients until age 40 because its not outgrown in adolescence.

amother

Buttercup

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 9:49 pm

I have a 15 year old like this. She’s getting better, partly due to maturing. What works for me is to sit quietly in her room while she’s angry, calmly remind her she doesn’t have to get physical, and give physical touch (like lightly putting my hand on her calf), while listening to what she’s screaming, and verbally acknowledging what she’s saying. Eventually she’s ready to talk so we talk about her feelings and the situation, and then how to express them in a more socially acceptable way. She B”H has really gotten better in the past few years (although still a long way to go). Early puberty was a hard time because her hormones made her act crazy, but good too because her brain was developing more ability to understand other people’s perspectives. This sitting with her when she’s upset and talking her through everything is exhausting but it helps. We’re very close now due to it, and she’ll sometimes lean her head against me for comfort after a particularly rough episode.

amother

Oleander

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 10:00 pm

I would wait until all emotions are calm and sit down and discuss what was going on... hear her out completely. Once she feels heard you can ask her if she knows why u have a rule about not picking locks... you can speak for a few minutes about allowing others privacy and security in your home and how that’s important to you and ur sure she appreciates that as well... then maybe you can discuss what she can do when she gets upset with a sibling in the future...

This is sooooo hard and I totally made it sounds simple (it’s easier to fix others dilemmas right?). I am constantly working on this... I have a 10 year old adhd daughter also on Guanfacine/intuniv...

My natural approach is strict/authoritative/kids need to show derech eretz... etc.... after tons of research and courses I have found the nurtured heart approach (or the like) is the most effective.

I find any on the spot consequences really teach her nothing and escalate the house... I really aim for a happy/secure house for all the kids in my family so I really really pick my battles with her ... right now I’m reading SC Radcliffe “better behavior now” and I’m gaining a lot from it... it’s very short and to the point, I highly recommend.

It’s a daily struggle but I remind myself that our relationship and keeping our home happy is infinitely more valuable then keeping the house in line and having that perfect disciplined family... although we’re going on a “ detoured” route, ultimately Hashem is sending us here to stretch ourselves beyond what we thought was possible.... our empathy, patience, self mastery will/must reach heights by the time we get out of this... and I wish us all tons and tons of nachas when we get there!

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jul 05 2021, 11:34 pm

OP, even if you don't believe in PANDAS, it wouldn't hurt to have her tested, if only so that you can check that one off the list. For every diagnosis you can exclude, you are one step closer to getting to what is really going on there.

It could also be a food intolerance. My brother would get this whenever he had whole wheat or citrus. Oddly, he was just fine with white bread. There was something in the wheat germ that was setting him off.

DD was lactose intolerant, and her dad "didn't believe in it." Every time she came back from his house she would be crazy, because he'd give her milk, yogurt, cheese, ice cream, and anything else that she wasn't allowed to eat at my house. She'd be absolutely beside herself, unable to control her emotions or behaviors, and when it started to wear off she'd just collapse into a puddle of tears.

Long story short - brains are complicated. It's really trial and error until you can pinpoint what the triggers are. Keep ruling things out, until you get it narrowed down. All the parenting books in the world won't help you if your child is inflamed or disregulated.

amother

Moonstone

Tue, Jul 06 2021, 1:49 am

amother [ Peachpuff ] wrote:

I have a child with such behavior & lately I was wondering if it’s PANDAS. Though I’m struggling to find a cure for a different child with Anxiety & curious to hear how you treated it?

amother

Peachpuff

Tue, Jul 06 2021, 7:12 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Agree. Even if it isn’t pandas per se, there is still something biological going on, and chances are it’s rooted in the gut and inflammation.

amother

Peachpuff

Tue, Jul 06 2021, 7:14 am

amother [ Moonstone ] wrote:

I have a child with such behavior & lately I was wondering if it’s PANDAS. Though I’m struggling to find a cure for a different child with Anxiety & curious to hear how you treated it?

We have been treating for years, have done various long term abx, diet, lots of supplements, craniosacral therapy and homeopathy. I know this is vague, I’m not sure how specific you want me to get. Just anxiety doesn’t always have to be pandas, though in my experience there usually does end up being some kind of infection/neuroinflammation component at the root, and you end up finding more symptoms as well...