S/O Do BTs become frum mainly to Live truth and reveal Hashe

Debbie

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 2:24 am

My becoming frum was not in the least bit trauma related.
I was raised in a good and loving secular home, but for as long as I can remember I have believed in Hashem, I just didn't know anything much about the Orthodox life.
As a teenager I started a search for religious meaning and admittedly I took the scenic route and took a wrong turn on the way.
Baruch Hashem I was introduced to a kiruv learning programme which inspired me tremendously; I have now been frum for going on thirty two years and it was the best thing I ever did.
Yes I became frum to live the life a Jew should live but I wouldn't say my life was devoid of meaning previously but now it's more focused on not just living a decent life but also on living life with a greater purpose.

Last edited by Debbie on Mon, Aug 02 2021, 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Pink

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 2:38 am

BrisketBoss wrote:

Makes sense. Many men go OTD for intellectual reasons as well.

So do many women. What is this outdated stereotype, that men are more intellectual than women?

My young adult niece went OTD for intellectual reasons. No trauma. Neither was it the secular lifestyle that attracted her - in fact, she still usually dresses in skirts and Tshirts because that's what she's used to. But she is a major intellect, reads philosophy and science books all the time, and came to her own conclusion.

She does come from a very liberal dati leumi home, so it wasn't a matter of severing ties with her home or community.

amother

Pink

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 2:39 am

BrisketBoss wrote:

To generalize--because I love generalizing--men are more into philosophy and science than we are. And if an older frum boy or man discovers scientific and philosophical material that seems to contrast with what he learned and he can't reconcile it, and no one he asks can reconcile it to his satisfaction, he may find it overly difficult to deal with the cognitive dissonance of living a frum life when his religion appears false to him on a fundamental level.

I am sorry, but that's not been my experience. I don't find men to be more philosophical than women at all.

amother

Pink

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 2:45 am

Zehava wrote:

Right. Hypocrisy is a factor. But I find that as humans we are self-centered creatures of habit. So it’s rather events in our own personal lives than communal problems that will drive us to upend our lives in such a drastic way.

That's true. But it doesn't need to be trauma, it can be other personal events.

To answer the op - there are millions of reasons why people become BT, and I would agree with others that they are often similar to reasons people go OTD. They can be intellectual, they can be social, they can be trauma related. Or a combination of all of the above.

Personally, the people I know back in high school who became BT, both boys and girls, did it for the social aspect I believe. They didn't have that many friends in other circles, and the BT world provided a whole social life.

As a side point, I do think there is a big difference between someone who went from one extreme to another, say from a very wild secular life to extreme RW charedi life (or vice versa) - there is a big difference between that and someone who didn't change that drastically in daily life, say from liberal, exposed dati leumi life to a settled, professional secular life.

Chickensoupprof

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 8:22 am

I felt just pulled to orthodoxy. I remember when I was 17ish me maybe 16... That I went to Antwerp with my parents and we ate at hoffys and those mostly chassidim caught my eye. It was for me I was watching a kind of a dream world or so.
It began for me that I was dating a Xtian who was anti Israel and he was pretty abusive to me. Abusive in; I needed to follow his opinion if I felt otherwise I should come with good arguments. If I didn't my argument wasn't invalid. I saw him sometimes once a week and sometimes I didn't see him for 2 weeks because he was 'busy'. He was in this organisation and in that one and... Ugh I broke up with him and then I went to taglit. Oh and Taglit is totally not ASD proof. Oh boy... they tried me to get excited about partying and then getting up on 7. I only liked Tzfat, and the kosel Oh and riding a Camel. But at the kosel is where I felt it was like a message from above that I'm the only greatgrand child from my greatgrand parents who can get Jewish children so I need to find this out.
So I did... And it was a rocky road and it was not easy.
I think if I wasn't considered 'special' and lived near by a big Jewish and more diverse community it would be more easier. I mean... Jewish Amsterdam is quite small, If I would live in London there were already lots of things I could take part of.

I needed to do something with my spirtuallity to begin with. In my teen years I know I was Jewish but didn't knew anything about it but my mom was into witchery stuff, astrology,tarot and the like. And I too was pulled in these things but it was for me still not the right stuff.
In yiddishkeit you have so much beautiful things that makes sense to me and things that are connected. A month a go Rav Ball shlita, showed my husband the Tikkun Korim and said 'look all the chagim from last weeks parsha till this parsha are without any white line it's all text except this, here you see a white line between shavuos and rosh hashana because when Moshiach comes the new holiday will be written'.
I was just stunned... It makes sense torah things make sense to me. And spirituality and everything like that. I love it.

amother

Tomato

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 9:31 am

I'm confused by the original post in this thread. IMHO OP is conflating two separate issues - why do people become BT, and are frum kids better behaved than non-frum kids.

People become BT for a variety of reasons, as discussed in this thread. Whether frum kids are better behaved or not -on the whole, I suspect not, but people's answer to this is going to depend on their experiences and what they see in their daily life. Personally, I've taught in both a suburban public school and a frum school, and the public school kids were MUCH better behaved than the frum kids both in terms of showing respect to teachers and treating their fellow students with respect.

As far as whether removing outside influences like TV and popular culture results in better behaved kids - well, maybe that's the ideal, but it certainly doesn't always happen.

amother

DarkCyan

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 9:34 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

Exactly. Not everyone's journey is so extreme.

My father became frum. But he grew up in a traditional home. His Mom lit shabbos candles but his Dad worked on shabbos. My father loved going to Shul. His parents belonged to a Conservative Temple with an Orthodox Rabbi. The Rabbi convinced my grandparents to send my father to yeshiva for high school and the rest is history.

I always say my father was born with a frum soul. His soul has always wanted to learn Torah. Through his guidance his sibling became religious also.

My grandparents were not upset that their children became frum. They wanted their kids to be happy. As the years went on they became more and more proud of their many grandchildren. Most of their friends and relatives had few or no grandchildren and most of them intermarried. I remember very clearly my grandmother saying proudly, my son the Rabbi!

So please don't make all BT's out to be unstable people. My father never had any problem integrating in the frum community. Married my FFB mother. Became a kiruv Rabbi and changed many many people's lives for the better.

As an aside, my father always focused his kiruv on young professional couples. People who were stable in their lives but were looking for more meaning then going to work and planning their next vacation. Most of the people became modern orthodox and didn't have to completely upend their lives. Many have kept up with my father, inviting him to their children's weddings etc...

icedcoffee

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 9:45 am

I'm a bit late to this thread but most BTs I know in the MO community became religious after some sort of kiruv or exposure to a frum lifestyle. I know a lot of people who went on Israel trips in college and came back wearing long sleeves and skirts, or people who got very involved in the campus Chabad, or parents who did a Shavuot program and slowly decided to become BT as a family.

As others have mentioned it's often not a dramatic shift from one extreme to the other. For example, for me, I grew up Conservative and "kept kosher" in that we only ate dairy out. We "kept shabbat" in that we said kiddush and hamotzi but would watch TV and drive places. I remember once asking my mom why my friend's family didn't use electricity on shabbat but we did, and my mom said "because they're Orthodox and we're not." As a child that felt alright but as I got older I realized how unsatisfactory that answer was for me. So it was a combination of education and meeting lots of Orthodox people in college who showed me the beauty of a more religious life. It didn't feel like an enormous change, but rather gradually taking on more. That's the most common trajectory I've seen, among MO people at least.

Chayalle

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 10:21 am

amother [ Brass ] wrote:

Perhaps we should distinguish between male and female BTs

My father is a BT. He is and always was a big philosopher and truth seeker as well as a very principled person motivated almost exclusively by right and wrong.

He definitely did not become frum because of interest in potato kugel or because he thought he would have a better family life. I did however hear him say more than once that he suspects the latter is a motive by some female BTs.

As far as the accusation that he was looking to escape trauma, he had and has a very good relationship with his family and as he once put it about this very issue "if you are looking for an escape from something opioids provides a wonderful relief too and you don't need to get all dressed up and follow all sorts of rules to smoke them..."

I have a relative whose MIL is BT, and I would say she became frum for similar reasons. Sorry to poke holes in your male/female bubble.

She actually grew up in a very warm traditional family, and she knew how to make potato kugel and matza balls (but didn't like gefilte fish much.) She was very comfortable where she was....but went to (an ivy league) college, and she figured she'd argue with the Chabad Rabbi there for the fun of it....but he actually made sense, and refuted her arguments, and won every time. So the Emes drew her, and after that, she began to attend Shabbos meals.

And she maintained warm relationships with her family (who were very proud of their frum grandchildren.)

Your viewpoint may be colored by your fathers, but I don't think it's correct.

PinkFridge

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 10:30 am

amother [ Brass ] wrote:

Curious how old he is.

PinkFridge

Mon, Aug 02 2021, 10:33 am

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

my dh became frum because he felt it was emes. He went to aish in israel and he has said that if not for the fact that he had decided BEFORE he went to become frum, it would have turned him off. It sounded like drugs, do this and you'll be happy. Life just doesn't work like that.

Unfortunately he has been very turned off by the frum community and doesn't trust them. He has not found that the middos in the frum community are any better then elsewhere. The only reason he stays frum is because he thinks as a jew he is commanded to keep the mitzvos. Otherwise he wouldn't.

His sisters became frum as well and one of them after quite a few years chose to go back to being "conservative", the frum world couldn't keep her, I don't think she felt yidishkeit was worth it, worth the tuition, worth not traveling on shabbos.... It could be that for some people they become frum because it feels good but I don't think in the long run that can keep them.

I wonder if once people have "arrived" they're dropped. Could be mentors are strapped for time and under whatever pressures but I sense a void of ongoing relationships and community. Add to that this stage of galus where even the most Pollyanadik FFBs (ahem) have to work not to grow cynical. Hugs extended to your family (ok, not your husband).