Mishpacha double take- this week

Chayalle

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 10:17 am

I think children should be taught about SN kids and to be nice to them and not afraid of them.

At the same time, kids do not have to put up with being constantly touched, or even more than that, having them put their fingers in their food. If a SN child is overstepping normal boundaries and making other kids uncomfortable, the parents need to supervise that child and not allow him/her free reign like that.

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 10:33 am

I have to say that while Ive seen sn children here and there in the street or around Ive never really encountered one or had to deal with one. As previous amothers posted that they dont believe its possible, it definitely is! I cant imagine my family knowing how to handle such a situation if they werent warned before.

amother

Brickred

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 10:41 am

Situation with shabbos sheva brochos could be avoided if they just did family seating. All could have been seated with their spouses and kids instead of having a kids table. Then the kallah’s mother would not have even had to make any phone calls.

amother

Diamond

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 11:31 am

gold2 wrote:

They could have sat her separately with her mother afterwards and also sat the other 12 year olds with their mothers so that it wouldn't have been embarassing to Toby or to her mother, simple solution for a quick fix

I dont agree that this is a quick fix.
Every simcha I have attended had a separate table for the young girls. Women want to sit with women and kids want to sit with kids.
As a kid I used to love schmoozing with my cousins. Why would I want to sit with my mother? That was the whole fun of being at a simcha!

amother

Diamond

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 11:34 am

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

Also, to those saying we all have encountered sn kids...this child was an "invisible" special needs kid. Meaning it's not at first obvious to people, and for sure not to kids.
My son who is 18 has aspergers. Most of his rebbeim just thought he was argumentative or lazy, until I told them at PTA. Most of the boys just think he is a bit different.

amother

Snowdrop

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 11:35 am

I think it's community dependent when it comes to seating.

Personally I'm a fan of family seating for so many reasons.
Too many stories of uncomfortable situations where people who "don't fit" are not placed appropriately. Like older singles stuck at the children's table or with teens 10 years their junior. Yes this happens.

I agree, a little more proactive planning all around would have prevented the issues in this story.

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 11:35 am

amother [ Brickred ] wrote:

Thats mixed seating and its not allowed in most circles! Oy!

amother

Snowdrop

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 11:36 am

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

Thats mixed seating and its not allowed in most circles! Oy!

You can do family seating with women and girls, and the men and boys. It prevents a lot of behavior issues all around, not just for kids with sn.

amother

Sand

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 11:53 am

amother [ Snowdrop ] wrote:

You can do family seating with women and girls, and the men and boys. It prevents a lot of behavior issues all around, not just for kids with sn.

The 'fun' in Simchas such as sheva brochos and bar mitzvahs is enjoying a meal with family members other than your kids. Same goes for the children, the fun in the simcha is enjoying a meal with their cousins. It's a rare occasion to sit down with them, catch up and shmooze.

It isn't fair to change up the whole simcha just to accommodate one SN child. The onus is on the parents to figure out how to accommodate the needs of the SN child within the framework of the Simcha. Advance preparation would have gone a long way in the story described in the Double Take series.

amother

Watermelon

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 12:19 pm

It wasn't surprising how the kallahs side's kids were reacting to toby after being introduced to their parents in the story.
I think actually, the solution would be to put Toby in an institution where she can't bother all the other normal people in the world. /S/

amother

Diamond

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 12:34 pm

amother [ Watermelon ] wrote:

You are being unnecessarily harsh. The mother of the kalla was not obtuse or suggesting they leave Toby behind. She just asked for a bit of cooperation.

Having been a ba'alas simcha myself several times, I know what a responsibility it is to accommodate everyone's needs and preferences, while also tending to a million other details. If one guest is unhappy, it weighs heavily on me to make it right because I feel responsible for the happiness and comfort of my guests while they are attending my simcha.

Here the baalas simcha was faced with a bunch of her own children and grandchildren who were upset on account of one child. I would think that she should be able to have a frank discussion with the child's mother and ask for her cooperation without getting a speech from her. It doesn't make her a heartless person.

Parents of special needs children should be sensitive to the situation as well, and not only demand that others be sensitive towards them. It has to go both ways.

Signed, a parent of a SN child.

amother

Snowdrop

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 12:51 pm

amother [ Sand ] wrote:

The "fun" of a Simcha is about celebrating a special occasion in honor of the main celebrant. It's about the bar mitzvah boy or new couple or new parents and celebrating their new milestone, not about the cousins and their pleasure.

farm

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 12:55 pm

Lots of good points.
I thought the fix was so simple- don’t mix the girl cousins from both sides at one table. Do the kallah’s young nieces and cousins together and the chosson’s together, 2 different tables, both near their mutual mothers. It seemed fairly obvious from the story that the SN’s cousins were used to her and comfortable dealing with her non conventional behavior. It was the little girls from the other side that hadn’t met her before the wedding and were scared and uncomfortable.

amother

Sand

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 1:17 pm

amother [ Snowdrop ] wrote:

This is what the Simcha is in honor on - celebrating the milestone. But how exactly are you celebrating, or in other words, enjoying or having fun in account of the celebration? One large part of that is that you share a meal with extended family members with whom you don't regularly dine with. You get to shmooze and catch up and relax with them & have adult style conversations.

amother

Diamond

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 1:28 pm

farm wrote:

I also thought this was the best idea.
Possibly it didn't work space wise.
A close relative of mine is a party planner. It takes a huge amount of planning to get the tables right. Tablecloths, centerpieces. It's not always possible to make changes at the last minute.

amother

Diamond

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 1:31 pm

amother [ Snowdrop ] wrote:

Its nice to be altruistic. But let's not pretend that adults and children dont look forward to the good food, company and program of a shabbos shev brachos. Baalei simcha go to great lengths to ensure their guests have a good time.
So yes, it's a lot more fun for the cousins to be seated together in most cases.
Obviously each family dynamic is different and it has to work out. But I vote that a cousins table is totally the way to go.

Chayalle

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 2:08 pm

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

Thats mixed seating and its not allowed in most circles! Oy!

Please remove your Oy. Mixed family seating at a Shabbos Sheva Brachos is most definitely allowed L'halacha, and is done in many circles (including my yeshivish circles).

Chayalle

Sun, Aug 15 2021, 2:09 pm

amother [ Diamond ] wrote:

That's true for a wedding, but in my circles, families sit together on Shabbos.