Doctor - I’m running out of compassion for the unvaccinated

amother

NeonGreen

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 10:23 am

How about you ask a question and leave out the snarky accusations?

In brief:
ADE stands for Antibody dependent enhancement. Try searching variations of the word Enhance. I think I got 90 hits.

There is nothing in the study to lead to your conclusion.

SixOfWands wrote:

Monoclonal antibody treatment is promising. If you want to risk getting sick and gasping for breath, then getting treatment, sure.

But the plural of anecdote isn't data. Just because your relatives recovered doesn't mean that 4.4 million people in the world, 1,359 in the US yesterday alone, didn't die. When I was a kid, no one wore seatbelts, and I don't know anyone who died in a car accident. That doesn't change a thing about how dangerous it is.

Sure. There are hundreds of well-designed rct's. AGAIN, I am not referring to monoclonal antibodies. As I posted upthread, check out the FLCCC website.

amother

NeonGreen

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 10:28 am

southernbubby wrote:

I can't make a religion out of off label medications. I explained numerous times why I was afraid of them. There is only one doctor in Florida, a guy in Hollywood, who gives ivermectin while most doctors are using monoclonal antibodies. I am not sure why the "true believers" are so uninterested in the gold standard of treatment when I have not heard of any complaints from people who used it.

Ivermectin is backed by over 100 studies, and its safety profile is well understood after 50 years on the market. The studies are ongoing. You may only know one doctor, but some hospitals have implemented FLCCC protocols and those hospitals have significantly lower covid death rates than hospitals that do not.

Regardless, afaik, no one who treats covid recommends using just one drug. They are viewing it as a syndrome, where illness is caused by the body's inflammatory response to the virus and therefore, several treatment options should be considered.

Mishmish

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 10:29 am

Ema of 4 wrote:

My point was that if people are saying it here, it’s not such a stretch to think it may actually be happening. I certainly hope it’s not, and it is a terrible thing if it is, but it’s not such a far fetched thought, unfortunately.

Yes, it is farfetched. And a terrible slander. I do not think that most people understand the unbelievable strain that our medical professionals are under or how dedicated they are to alleviating human suffering and helping people.

Every single day, our doctors, nurses, and support staff are literally risking their lives to take care of people with have covid. It's like running into a burning building over and over and over again. And on top of the risk to themselves, they have to worry about bringing the virus home to their families--many of whom include children who are too young to be vaccinated or family members for whom the vaccines might not be as effective.

They deserve support and compassion and for society to get our act together and try to put the brakes on this pandemic--to slow things down so it is more manageable. If you are not going to take a vaccine, are you at least taking precautions to prevent catching and spreading this others? Are you wearing a mask and distancing? What are you doing to help?

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 10:37 am

amother [ NeonGreen ] wrote:

The FLCCC website lists only the doctor in Hollywood and doesn't mention hospitals. Desantis has opened up numerous monoclonal antibody clinics so the average Floridian has a better chance that he or she will be treated in one of Ron's clinics than in the FLCCC facility.
I don't think that it makes any difference as long as something works. While ivermectin has a long track record, for some reason, some people are taking the livestock formulation which is toxic for humans. That doesn't need to happen in Florida.

Ema of 5

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 10:39 am

Mishmish wrote:

Maybe they shouldn’t be going around saying such things….

amother

Hosta

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 10:52 am

This article seems to explain why the Research on ADE caused by vaccines isn’t reliable.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/p.....hesis

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 11:06 am

SixOfWands wrote:

See above.

In any case, we also don't know the long term effects of covid infection. We know that decades later, chicken pox can come back as shingles. We don't know what can happen with covid.

BTW, monoclonal antibody treatment has only received EUA. Given the lack of long term studies, why do vaccine opponents approve of it?

If a vaccinated person contracts Covid, they are treated with monoclonal antibodies.

SixOfWands

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 11:08 am

southernbubby wrote:

If a vaccinated person contracts Covid, they are treated with monoclonal antibodies.

Sure. It seems to work, I think its great.

But its a bit hypocritical to claim that you won't vaccinate because of unknown long term effects (although vaccine effects almost always, if not always, appear within at most 2 months), while welcoming another treatment whose long term effects are not known.

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 11:12 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Most of the antivaxers on here are believers in the Zelenko protocol or the FLCCC protocol and view monoclonal antibodies as the equivalent of the vaccine with it's unknown possibilities.

Amarante

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 11:45 am

Yes I really don't understand the willingness to ingest potentially toxic substances and be afraid to take a vaccine.

It is all about identity politics and it is ridiculous.

There is a reddit forum which nominates people for a Herman Cain award and awards it posthumously. Qualification for being nominated is to have publicly stated one's opposition to masks and/or vaccines and recommending on one's excellent immunity and a reliance on HQZ and now this new invectrim.

Once they are in the hospital they seem to have no questions about all of the medicines and treatments that are being pumped into their body. The list includes some cancer survivors which seems doubly ironic. Putting aside their increased vulnerability to serious complications and death, they also presumably took a lot of highly toxic stuff during their chemotherapy treatments and seemed to have no qualms about not relying on Dr. Google instead of as good an oncologist as they could find. And the only difference is that the cynical right wing decided that making one's position on masks and vaccinations were a good way to add another element of "identity politics" in order to maintain their base. Ironically it would appear that they are actually killing their base disproportionately but taking along some innocent people along the way.

Amarante

Tue, Aug 24 2021, 11:52 am

the Daily Beast had a good article on the current status of Israel boosters - I highlighted the especially relevant paragraphs.

Ultra-Vaxxed Israel’s Crisis Is a Dire Warning to America

JERUSALEM—The massive surge of COVID-19 infections in Israel, one of the most vaccinated countries on earth, is pointing to a complicated path ahead for America.

In June, there were several days with zero new COVID infections in Israel. The country launched its national vaccination campaign in December last year and has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, with 80 percent of citizens above the age of 12 fully inoculated. COVID, most Israelis thought, had been defeated. All restrictions were lifted and Israelis went back to crowded partying and praying in mask-free venues.

Fast forward two months later: Israel reported 9,831 new diagnosed cases on Tuesday, a hairbreadth away from the worst daily figure ever recorded in the country—10,000—at the peak of the third wave. More than 350 people have died of the disease in the first three weeks of August. In a Sunday press conference, the directors of seven public hospitals announced that they could no longer admit any coronavirus patients. With 670 COVID-19 patients requiring critical care, their wards are overflowing and staff are at breaking point.

“I don’t want to frighten you,” coronavirus czar Dr. Salman Zarka told the Israeli parliament this week. “But this is the data. Unfortunately, the numbers don’t lie.”

What happened?

The complex and sobering truth is that no single policy or event brought Israel to this crisis, Hagai Levine, a Hebrew University of Jerusalem professor of epidemiology, told The Daily Beast. A deadly set of circumstances came together to put Israel on the precipice, most of which can be summed up as: “We are still in the midst of a pandemic, and there is no silver bullet.”

“All the vectors have influenced the rise in morbidity,” he said.

But the principal causes of Israel’s current predicament are the dominance of the extremely infectious Delta variant, which was carried into the country by Israelis returning from foreign vacations during the weeks in which Israel dropped all restrictive measures—along with the worrisome decrease in vaccine efficacy after about six months.

Israel vaccinated its population almost exclusively with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, which received full FDA approval on Monday and remains the gold standard for the prevention of severe illness due to the coronavirus.

It is not an Israeli problem. It is everywhere.

But in early July, with citizens over the age of 60 almost completely vaccinated, Israeli scientists began observing a worrisome rise in infections—if not in severe illness and death—among the double-vaccinated.

Fully vaccinated people with weakened immune systems appeared particularly vulnerable to the aggressive Delta variant.

By mid-July, Sheba Hospital Professor Galia Rahav began to experiment with booster shots for oncology patients, transplant patients, and the hospital’s own staff. A group of 70 elderly vaccinated Israelis with transplanted kidneys were the first to receive a third dose.

The success of Rahav’s trials in boosting immunity at about the sixth-month mark contributed to the Centers for Disease Control decision, announced last week, to begin offering booster shots to Americans in September.

In order to keep severe illness and the number of COVID deaths down, and avoiding a fourth national lockdown, Israel has embarked on an aggressive effort to provide all adults with boosters in a matter of weeks.

As of this week, all Israelis over 30 will be eligible to receive booster shots. By the end of the month, they are expected to be universally available to anyone over the age of 12 who received their second vaccine five months or more ago.

Israel will then reconfigure its Green Passports, granting them only to the triple-vaccinated, and limiting their validity to six months. In anticipation of this change, the number of unvaccinated Israelis getting their first shots has tripled since the beginning of August.

The World Health Organization has asked wealthy countries to halt all third vaccines for a period of two months, hoping that a moratorium will allow poorer countries, where few citizens have received even a first inoculation, to catch up. The United States rejected the call and Israel has ignored it.

[color=darkred]Asked what has brought Israel to peak transmission even as the country has already provided third doses of vaccines to 1.5 million citizens, Rahav, who has become one of the best known faces of Israel’s public health messaging, sighed, saying, “I think we’re dealing with a very nasty virus. This is the main problem—and we’re learning it the hard way.”

“It is a combination of waning immunity, so that inoculated people get reinfected, and at the same time the very transmissible Delta variant,” Rahav said, adding that Israelis lacked the discipline to revert to mask usage as the numbers began rising. “But it is not an Israeli problem,” she added. “It Is everywhere.”
[/color]
Her conclusion should give pause to American authorities, who face school reopenings as, at best, only 50 percent of eligible adults have been fully vaccinated.

We can all learn from other countries, but you can’t copy paste other countries’ methods.

Unlike New Zealand, which aims for zero community transmission of the coronavirus, and imposes lockdowns when even a single positive case is identified, Israeli authorities have opted for a model they are calling “living with corona.”

“Israel really is a pioneer,” Levine, the former chairman of the nation’s Association of Public Health Physicians, said, referring to the groundbreaking vaccination campaign and the country’s efforts, currently underway, to fully reopen schools on Sept. 1 while keeping in place measures aimed at preventing school-driven outbreaks, such as the one that closed the nation down last summer.

“We’ve achieved a plan that is not hermetic,” Zarka, the coronavirus czar, told a local radio station. “Clearly there will be cases of illness at schools… [but] shutting oneself up at home and closing the school system isn’t exactly the solution.”

He has asked the government to impose stricter limitations on the size of cultural and sports events until the incidence of the coronavirus declines.

“Each country has to assess its own epidemiology,” Levine said, “its culture, its public health, the public’s confidence in its health authorities.” Referring to New Zealand, he added that “we can all learn from other countries, but you can’t copy paste other countries’ methods.”

[color=darkred]Israel was forced to make quick decisions and in a time of great uncertainty. Levine was among the public health officials who expressed doubts about the wisdom of Israel’s untested move towards nationwide booster vaccination, but he told The Daily Beast that the latest statistics, showing that only 0.2 of the first 1.1 million recipients of the third jab were infected with the coronavirus, proved it had been a “brave decision.”

The last week has shown a significant reduction in morbidity among triple-vaccinated Israelis over the age of 70—the first group to receive the booster.
[/color]
Like the other experts, Rahav supports schools reopening, but noted that thanks to upcoming Jewish holidays, which will close schools in about 80 percent of the country, Israel will once again be uniquely positioned to serve as a huge laboratory.

amother

NeonGreen

Wed, Aug 25 2021, 7:33 am

amother [ Hosta ] wrote:

This article seems to explain why the Research on ADE caused by vaccines isn’t reliable.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/p.....hesis

This article is referring to a different paper. It was published a week before the preprint I linked above came out, which was yesterday.

amother

NeonGreen

Wed, Aug 25 2021, 7:40 am

southernbubby wrote:

Some doctors work in hospitals. If their hospital supports their treatment protocol, then their hospital supports their treatment protocol. Unlike the hospitals that were sued for refusing to try anything other than venting and supplemental oxygen.

I don't know that every doctor who follows the FLCCC protocol is a member of FLCCC? Not sure why you would assume that. The doctor who treated my relatives is not a member.

I imagine people are taking the livestock version, if that's even true, out of desperation but no medical professional advocated for that.

sky

Wed, Aug 25 2021, 7:40 am

SixOfWands wrote:

I think ppl are uncomfortable injecting a New vaccine into their body when healthy. Especially if recovered from covid and the testing in those who recovered from covid is minimimal and there is no proof it offers greater protection. Especially now that you know boosters are needed every 6-8 months. The boosters are really not tested long term at all, or tested at all.

Once someone is sick then they are ready to take something. Especially that has been on the market for many years and heavily tested in other situations were the long term risks and side affects are better known and studied.

Ivermectin has been used since 1988.
Hcq since 1955.
We aren’t discussing anything brand new.

Vaccine 2020/2021.

amother

Lightcyan

Sun, Jul 03 2022, 6:51 pm

Has anything changed since the last posts here?

Are more vaccinated people regretting getting vaccinated, or

Are more unvaccinated people and their families, if the relatives have passed, regretting not getting vaccinated,

now that we see totally vaccinated and boosted people getting Covid?

Has it been proven that those who get more seriously ill or worse, die from Covid, are statistically the unvaccinated?

amother

Charcoal

Sun, Jul 03 2022, 7:57 pm

amother [ Lightcyan ] wrote:

Yes, it has been proven.

amother

Oatmeal

Sun, Jul 03 2022, 8:09 pm

FWIW My coworkers double vaccinated and double boostered father in law just died from covid. It was his first time getting covid.

amother

Hunter

Sun, Jul 03 2022, 8:20 pm

amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:

Yes, it has been proven.

Nope, not since a long time ago. Not with any of the subsequent strains.

amother

Ginger

Sun, Jul 03 2022, 8:24 pm

I regret getting vaxxed. Put garbage into my body

amother

NeonGreen

Sun, Jul 03 2022, 8:28 pm

Regions with low vaccination rates are now correlated with low omicron rates, and vice versa.