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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
Rainbow
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 Mon, Aug 23 2021, 12:50 am
| STMommy wrote: | | Totally false. There are at least 15 days less. |
They make up for lost days by having school on Sundays and legal holidays etc.
They do have a certain amount of school days per year they need to clock in.
Last edited by amother on Tue, Dec 21 2021, 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mommy12
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 12:54 am
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Just wondering, if we had a system with a shorter summer break but more breaks built into the school year, what would parents do for childcare during those breaks? Wouldn't there be the same issue?
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GLUE
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 1:04 am
| mommy12 wrote: | | Just wondering, if we had a system with a shorter summer break but more breaks built into the school year, what would parents do for childcare during those breaks? Wouldn't there be the same issue? |
What many people want\need is a short summer break and only Y"T off.
They also don't want to have to sit in traffic for a bout an hour to drop there kids off only to have to come back in 2-3 hours to pick them up. Why so many 1\2 days why can't they be full days.
This year is a crazy year when Rosh Chodesh Ellul falls around Labor day many of these issues that we have now such as to many 1\2 days do not exist
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amother
Amaryllis
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 1:09 am
| amother [ Tiffanyblue ] wrote: | | This is a happy medium for the girls but how is this a happy medium for the boys? |
The younger boys still have around 4 hours every afternoon to run around, bike, swim etc. and I think the structure and learning is more important than anything. the older boys may go to sleep away camp so that’s a change for them (even though they have a full learning schedule, they also have swimming, activities etc) and then once you’re bar mitzvah age you do have bein hazmanim in Tishrei and Nissan.
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amother
Wine
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 1:13 am
I'm the OP of the other thread about the crazy schedule this year and (quite obviously) I agree with every word the OP and Dimgray are saying, just never thought of questioning the administrators.
Honestly, I do think the administrators think about the kids' needs. That's why the boys here in lkwd (I'm noticing many of these frustrated posters are from lkwd...wonder why) have just 6 weeks off and always start a week into Elul, no matter what the English date is.
The big issue is that the administrators of the boys' schools and girls' schools DONT COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE ALL GOING CRAZY HERE.
Just think how many problems would be solved if the girls started school ON THE SAME DAY as the boys:
1. Most importantly: Every family, whether a working or kollel family, would have just one full week with everyone home, plus a few days during the week that school starts. And that's it. A full week off is great for a family vacation, visiting relatives, or just some shared family downtime. Working parents can generally save up a few days vacation for the summer and they could use it now. But most CANNOT save up a few weeks!!
2. With girls' schools starting, the morahs (playgroups) and English teachers would be starting too. In girls' schools AND boys schools. So none of these ridiculous half-days when the boys need to be picked up a half-hour after you get home from dropping them off.
3. Maybe, just maybe, there'd be buses available for our kids if the day camps weren't running anymore...
For those saying we can't do this because the girls' camps are set up a certain way...I know that it means going against a system that's been in place for years.
But guess what? X amount of years ago, the Lkwd Cheder (and all boys schools in lkwd after) decided to change the 10-week vacation from school to just 6 weeks, with the last 3 weeks of the year being a school/camp with half a day of sports, swimming, and the occasional trip, all at a cheaper rate than tuition--and a much cheaper rate than day camp.
And you know what? The Earth continued spinning on its axis. Life went on and everyone was fine. The boys are perfectly ok. Parents are thrilled with the savings and I have yet to hear one complain.
And after a while, other communities started mimicking this schedule. Not only that, but boys sleepaway camps started accommodating this schedule and now no lkwd boys are missing out on sleepaway camp because they only have 6 weeks off in the summer.
We did it. It worked. And yes, we can do it for our girls, too! Give them school camp for the last three weeks also, maybe even a lighter version than the boys have. Get different teachers if theirs don't want to work an extra three weeks. Or, we can just give the girls 8 weeks off but count backwards from the day the boys will start to know when to end school for each year. Again, if all girls schools in lkwd did this, the camps would accommodate.
But just put the boys and girls on the same schedule!!
It's time for parents' needs to be recognized and heard.
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GLUE
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 1:20 am
What about mid-winter brake shouldn't that also be on the same schedule?
Shouldn't boys and girls school talk to each other when making mid-winter?
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amother
Wine
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 1:25 am
| GLUE wrote: | What about mid-winter brake shouldn't that also be on the same schedule?
Shouldn't boys and girls school talk to each other when making mid-winter? |
It would be nice, but honestly, midwinter is generally ONE day. Sometimes two. (Friday the boys are off also)
It's not even remotely comparable to this year's mess where we have almost four weeks straight where there's not ONE day in which every member of the family is at school/camp for a full day.
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amother
Lightgreen
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 1:36 am
| amother [ Dimgray ] wrote: | The three months vacation has kids losing so much of what they learned. The first couple of weeks of school is usually spent on reviewing what they've learned previously to bring them up to speed. It makes no sense.
A much better setup would be the European version. Give the kids 4-6 weeks off during the summer and give them longer breaks during the year. This way they're not in the school environment for nine months straight. |
Such schedule won't help working parents. Just saying.
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GLUE
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 1:36 am
| amother [ Wine ] wrote: | It would be nice, but honestly, midwinter is generally ONE day. Sometimes two. (Friday the boys are off also)
It's not even remotely comparable to this year's mess where we have almost four weeks straight where there's not ONE day in which every member of the family is at school/camp for a full day. |
The reason I am bring this up because it seems to come up every year in the Winter. If a school administrator is reading this it is something else to think about.
This year's mess comes up every few years when Rosh Chodesh Ellul falls out in the beginning of August. Since it happens every few years, I think nobody whats to think about it until they have to.
Instead of kicking the can down the road it would be nice if someone has a chart worked out with every type of year on when is the best time to start and how to start. But, who will make such a chart not me, I will not no how.
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nylon
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 2:40 am
The NY public school schedule is actually different from some other states. They have the latest start and latest finish, and a slightly shorter summer break. In return they get some more days off during the year. This is because NY takes an extra week in February plus many districts take off multiple religious holidays. In some places there is a full 12 weeks of break--they finish right after Memorial Day but go back the last week of August.
I would be fine with shortening the summer to 8 weeks. That is plenty long enough.
In England where they have 6 weeks in the summer and more time off during the year there are holiday clubs. But parents also get more vacation time from work.
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amother
Blushpink
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 6:53 am
| SafeAtLast wrote: | They make up for lost days by having school on Sundays and legal holidays etc.
They do have a certain amount of school days per year they need to clock in. |
Not all. For example the girls BY school in my community (not in NY) has no school on sunday. They get off most legal holidays (obviously not Xmas or New Years), not to mention extra days off for erev YT. I added up the days off one year and compared it to the local public school, plus start/end day. The BY school had off probably an extra 2 weeks worth of school.
That said, if schools ran longer, the tuition would be increases.
Or if they followed the European method with a shorter summer but more breaks in the middle of the year, you'd still have just as many child care issues.
Israel has a shorter summer with fewer breaks but the school days are much shorter as well. Most girls finish each day at 1 or 2 pm. That wouldn't go over in the U.S.
As far as extending the school day, you run into issues with kids walking home/buses running in the dark in winter. Not a good idea.
These are a few reasons why the system isn't changing so quickly.
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STMommy
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 8:14 am
| SafeAtLast wrote: | They make up for lost days by having school on Sundays and legal holidays etc.
They do have a certain amount of school days per year they need to clock in. |
No. They do not. My daughters do not have school on Sundays. They have no school on Veterans Day, Presidents Day, or Memorial Day. They do not meet the NY mandates number of days. Like a previous poster, I have counted. There is consistently a 15-day difference. I did not make up that number.
BTW my HS freshman's calendar is even worse. She will have about 3 weeks off for an extended Yom Kippuru/Skkos break and a month off for Pesach. Poor kid will be home alone an awful lot this year. Did the admins think every household in their parent body has a stay-at-home mom who will appreciate the help from their HSer? Do they underpay the teachers so severely (even compared to the elementary school with much less pre-Pesach vacation time) that the month off before Pesach is necessary to offset? Can we talk about this insanity besides the summer schedule??
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amother
Dimgray
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 8:24 am
| SafeAtLast wrote: | They make up for lost days by having school on Sundays and legal holidays etc.
They do have a certain amount of school days per year they need to clock in. |
Sunday is just an exchange for Friday, and many schools close on legal holidays for the younger kids.
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amother
Bellflower
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 8:26 am
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This is way beyond the scope of administrators at this point. Girls camps make too much money to just let their summers be shaved off and as a teacher, I can say teachers would fight this hard. By the time mid June rolls around the year is OVER. The girls are done and its all we can do to hold them in school. Were overworked and underpaid as it is - please don't dump more on us.
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amother
Dimgray
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 8:29 am
| mommy12 wrote: | | Just wondering, if we had a system with a shorter summer break but more breaks built into the school year, what would parents do for childcare during those breaks? Wouldn't there be the same issue? |
First, if you synchronize the days off between boys and girls, more days become available. And then there's the issue of taking off from work right before YT, when you need to take off so many days again. Taking some days off midyear is much easier than expecting to be accommodated for days off for weeks on end.
There is also the difference in the kids behavior to consider. At this point, the comings are coming off 8 weeks of vacation. They're already bored from all the routine vacation stuff. It's much harder to work with them now, than say a brand new week of vacation after months of school.
But yes, childcare is always an issue. So wouldn't it be better if the school at least tries to work with the parents a little bit, instead of pretending its non-existent?
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amother
Dimgray
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 8:31 am
| STMommy wrote: | No. They do not. My daughters do not have school on Sundays. They have no school on Veterans Day, Presidents Day, or Memorial Day. They do not meet the NY mandates number of days. Like a previous poster, I have counted. There is consistently a 15-day difference. I did not make up that number.
BTW my HS freshman's calendar is even worse. She will have about 3 weeks off for an extended Yom Kippuru/Skkos break and a month off for Pesach. Poor kid will be home alone an awful lot this year. Did the admins think every household in their parent body has a stay-at-home mom who will appreciate the help from their HSer? Do they underpay the teachers so severely (even compared to the elementary school with much less pre-Pesach vacation time) that the month off before Pesach is necessary to offset? Can we talk about this insanity besides the summer schedule?? |
What about the even greater insanity of having elementary kids home a full week before pesach. Parents really need their second and third graders help before YT? Maybe some do, but for the majority it actually places a bigger burden onto them.
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amother
Dimgray
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 8:37 am
| amother [ Bellflower ] wrote: | | This is way beyond the scope of administrators at this point. Girls camps make too much money to just let their summers be shaved off and as a teacher, I can say teachers would fight this hard. By the time mid June rolls around the year is OVER. The girls are done and its all we can do to hold them in school. Were overworked and underpaid as it is - please don't dump more on us. |
I'm tired of teachers pretending they have it so much harder than other workers. I think its time to mandate that teachers should first work elsewhere before accepting a teaching job. Yes, teachers work hard. But, get this, so do all the other people that work. Jobs are called work for a reason. They're hard and many people put in all kind of working hours and many people have stressful, all-time consuming jobs. It's not exclusive to teaching at all.
Many people are underpaid too for their particular work. Again, it's not exclusive to teachers. The kids get jumpy by June because of how the system is set up, they know that vacation is around the corner. It would be the same mentality whenever the vacation is scheduled. And perhaps they wouldn't be as jumpy, if they'd have the vacation scattered across the year.
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sky
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 8:46 am
Bec schools are used as cams it’s virtually impossible to get rid of the gap week.
I was talking to someone who is in charge of school maintenance and he said the amount of work it takes to get a school back in order after camp and reset for the school year is huge. We aren’t going to just go from camp to school ever. Even playgroup morahs need the time to clean up. Refresh toys.
I’m very lucky to have 23 days off work a year. That doesn’t leave me any days for a summer vacation. Or winter break. I take off yom tov and eruv yom tov. (My kids are home then also)
Even when ppl say it’s not hard for parents to take off a week in the summer. I think it’s very hard. I’m taking off almost the entire september. I’m working like 7 days. How in the world am I also supposed to ask for a week off in august.
And my son started high school beginnng august. I’m not taking other kids away when he is sitting n school.
Now that I have older girls it does it make it a little easier. Some girls are making diff cams as chessed in my neighborhood. It’s very nice.
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amother
Dimgray
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 8:54 am
| sky wrote: | Bec schools are used as cams it’s virtually impossible to get rid of the gap week.
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Week? As in a singular week? Oh, that would be very nice. In my community, the gap between camp and school is two weeks.
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amother
NeonOrange
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Mon, Aug 23 2021, 8:59 am
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How about Bein Hazmanim for boys. Giving them off for a month Pesach time and during yomim tovim. How many boys really schedule themselves and learn versus sleeping in late and hanging around.
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