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This is why you need to work
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amother




Crocus
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 9:56 am
Zehava wrote:
Are you maybe sending the wrong value to your boys by doing everything in the house? Isn’t it crippling to them that they’ll always need to rely on someone else to do the laundry and cooking? Isn’t that a privilege? Who says they’ll always have a woman in their life to do these things for them? Why don’t you make your husband cook dinner some days just so your boys aren’t denied the ability to do housework?


You said you do all that in your home so don’t you send your boys and girls the same lesson?
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:00 am
amother [ Crocus ] wrote:
You said you do all that in your home so don’t you send your boys and girls the same lesson?

I do. I was asking her this question since she thinks a mother needs to both work and run the household to teach her daughters the “right lesson” to not be dependent on a man for money, or deny themselves the ability to work. If that’s her philosophy it should apply to her boys as well. But obviously there’s a double standard here and she thinks it’s okay for her sons to see her dh getting everything done for him.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:05 am
I'm checking in Smile

Thank you zehava for making me feel better about the last 20 years. I didn't regret them as I was raising my children. I don't regret living simpler and being able to send them off to school and be home for them when they came home. I dont regret being able to come to their school things and volunteer and keeping my babies home with me. I BH was able to afford to do so. I cannot imagine that I could have been a better mother if I worked. I felt maxxed out as it was.
I grew up with a career mom (when no mothers in the frum velt was anything but a teacher or secretary at least amongst my peers) and I wanted to be a mom mom. What I didn't think about was what would happen when my kids were all in school and money got tighter. I didn't think about what the workforce would be like for someone my age with no skills, no degree, no techie or business savy.
I actually find that these days most women work, and SAHM are looked down upon. When we got married I told my husband that my kids would be my top priority, if I was a better mother working I would do that (after first trying to be a SAHM), if I was better mother if we had more money, I would work. If I was a better mother with less stress but need to live simply I would do that.
That's the ideal. Not working or not working. But putting our children first.
Half of my regrets is social pressure. Like look at loser me, with nothing to show for myself and nothing to do or be now that I'm passed the babies stage. All the working moms are just as good mothers and doing it all plus more and I couldn't manage more than just my household. There is hardly any respect for a SAHM, it's considered a luxury like fancy jewelry instead of an honorable sacrifice. Are my kids even any better off after all these years? Society tells me no and on this thread some are saying they are even worse off.
This is my regret.
Maybe I should have made it work like all the other perfect working moms who are doing what I did plus plus plus. And in their older years even have a career and financial independence that I don't.
(None of this applies to women who have to work for parnassa- top priority is children- they need food clothes and tuition paid obviously).
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:11 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I'm checking in Smile

Thank you zehava for making me feel better about the last 20 years. I didn't regret them as I was raising my children. I don't regret living simpler and being able to send them off to school and be home for them when they came home. I dont regret being able to come to their school things and volunteer and keeping my babies home with me. I BH was able to afford to do so. I cannot imagine that I could have been a better mother if I worked. I felt maxxed out as it was.
I grew up with a career mom (when no mothers in the frum velt was anything but a teacher or secretary at least amongst my peers) and I wanted to be a mom mom. What I didn't think about was what would happen when my kids were all in school and money got tighter. I didn't think about what the workforce would be like for someone my age with no skills, no degree, no techie or business savy.
I actually find that these days most women work, and SAHM are looked down upon. When we got married I told my husband that my kids would be my top priority, if I was a better mother working I would do that (after first trying to be a SAHM), if I was better mother if we had more money, I would work. If I was a better mother with less stress but need to live simply I would do that.
That's the ideal. Not working or not working. But putting our children first.
Half of my regrets is social pressure. Like look at loser me, with nothing to show for myself and nothing to do or be now that I'm passed the babies stage. All the working moms are just as good mothers and doing it all plus more and I couldn't manage more than just my household. There is hardly any respect for a SAHM, it's considered a luxury like fancy jewelry instead of an honorable sacrifice. Are my kids even any better off after all these years? Society tells me no and on this thread some are saying they are even worse off.
This is my regret.
Maybe I should have made it work like all the other perfect working moms who are doing what I did plus plus plus. And in their older years even have a career and financial independence that I don't.
(None of this applies to women who have to work for parnassa- top priority is children- they need food clothes and tuition paid obviously).

So you got an issue with society and the grass looks greener. I hear you. I can’t relate both because SAHMs are much more standard here and because I don’t give two hoots what people think.
It seems like more of a midlife crisis to me. Take your time to figure out your next steps. Don’t look back, look ahead. IYH you’ll get there.
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amother




Jade
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:15 am
op I was just reading a blog post, she called it clothpins, other people call it spoons. basically everyone doesn't have an equal life so if you have a difficult child that will take up some of you spoons, low energy, that takes up spoons, mental illness, takes them away.... so while it might look like well everyone has the same 24 hours why were they able to handle it and I wasn't, the reason is because you and them are not actually the same, same personal makeup, same life makeup... so you can't compare a different mother's children with yours, you have to compare what would YOUR life had been like if you had worked.
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amother




Red
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:25 am
amother [ Cinnamon ] wrote:
I always find it so distasteful when women explain that they just won’t work because of some fear of being “run ragged” or whatever exaggeration they want to use about working and why it’s beneath them. Not working is a luxury. Period. SOMEONE is being run ragged here, and you’re darn well lucky they’re supporting you.

How many times do women come onto this website and complain that their husbands won’t work? Maybe THEY don’t want to be run ragged either.

Point is, stop opining about why being a SAHM is just the best most optimal choice for life instead of calling it like it is. A luxury.


Every family is different. Everyone's earning power is different too. And not everyone when they work , works full time. IYH I'm having twins. Based on how much will go to a babysitter and how much I earn an hour, I would basically break even if I continued to work the part time that I do. If I wanted to make a profit I would have to put in a whole lot more hours then I'm used to. Why would I do that to myself? I was never a full time worker and in my field full time is very hard to come by and is rare.so I'm not going back to work after they're born iyh.
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amother




Caramel
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:37 am
Not everyone is cut out to stay home.
My DD just graduated with her BA.
She is not good at housework, she hates cooking. I think she would end up on meds if she was a SAHM.
Everyone in her circles , among her married friends, works. No one can make it on 1 income.
I think she will do much better outsourcing the things she is not good at and working in a field she enjoys.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 10:48 am
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
Oh my goodness
This thread is hysterical!
I’m the grandma-
So a mom shouldn’t home with her kids, she should be working. But once she’s a grandma she should stop to work and step in to raise the grandchildren.
That’s backwards

It's actually pretty common What not in North America, but in a lot of the rest of the world.

That's not to say that you should do it, let alone feel any pressure to do it! But I wouldn't call it backwards, either. There's definitely logic to it. It lets women build a career when they're young and energetic and have lots of options, and it means that no one stage of life is too overwhelming. Like paying tuition over the course of 25 years instead of 12.

(in Israel at least - including the various subcultures here that do this, eg Russians - the grandma is not usually quitting work to be with her grandkids, more like handling afternoons and vacations)
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amother




Calendula
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 11:03 am
ora_43 wrote:
It's actually pretty common What not in North America, but in a lot of the rest of the world.

That's not to say that you should do it, let alone feel any pressure to do it! But I wouldn't call it backwards, either. There's definitely logic to it. It lets women build a career when they're young and energetic and have lots of options, and it means that no one stage of life is too overwhelming. Like paying tuition over the course of 25 years instead of 12.

(in Israel at least - including the various subcultures here that do this, eg Russians - the grandma is not usually quitting work to be with her grandkids, more like handling afternoons and vacations)

And it's not necessarily an optimal system. A lot of these grandmas are very resentful.
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amother




Chestnut
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 11:42 am
amother [ Caramel ] wrote:
Not everyone is cut out to stay home.
My DD just graduated with her BA.
She is not good at housework, she hates cooking. I think she would end up on meds if she was a SAHM.
Everyone in her circles , among her married friends, works. No one can make it on 1 income.
I think she will do much better outsourcing the things she is not good at and working in a field she enjoys.


This. Bless you all for staying home. I just did it for a year+ and I was going a little nuts! I love my kids and I loved having time with them, but I still didn't have it all together, housework-wise, and I was bored. Now I'm back at work and we're getting more takeout, and the house is messy, and weeknights are a little hectic, but I'm feeling happier having a place to go every day. Everyone has a different situation and amount you can handle.

As far as the time lost in the workforce, if you can use some of the time at home to advance your skills or experience with schooling, part time work, or volunteer work, you'll be in a better position to reenter the workforce when you want or need to.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 11:50 am
amother [ Caramel ] wrote:
Not everyone is cut out to stay home.
My DD just graduated with her BA.
She is not good at housework, she hates cooking. I think she would end up on meds if she was a SAHM.
Everyone in her circles , among her married friends, works. No one can make it on 1 income.
I think she will do much better outsourcing the things she is not good at and working in a field she enjoys.

Keyword being outsourcing
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dancingqueen




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 12:43 pm
amother [ Lightpink ] wrote:
Nah this is why you need a degree. I have a degree, worked for a little while, and am taking a nice long break. When I'm ready to restart I won't be starting from nothing.


I totally agree that a degree puts you in a much better position, but it depends how long your very long break is. Even after 5 years, your skills might be a bit behind, certainly after 10+.

This thread is interesting, I feel like I’m in a bit of a time warp here.
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amother




Ruby
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 1:12 pm
ora_43 wrote:
It's actually pretty common What not in North America, but in a lot of the rest of the world.

That's not to say that you should do it, let alone feel any pressure to do it! But I wouldn't call it backwards, either. There's definitely logic to it. It lets women build a career when they're young and energetic and have lots of options, and it means that no one stage of life is too overwhelming. Like paying tuition over the course of 25 years instead of 12.

(in Israel at least - including the various subcultures here that do this, eg Russians - the grandma is not usually quitting work to be with her grandkids, more like handling afternoons and vacations)

But then doesn’t it make more sense to raise your kids when you’re young and energetic and not wait to raise your grandkids when you’re older and have less energy and patience?

Why is building a career when your energetic more important than using that energy to build a little person?
(Assuming you have the financial freedom to stay home and don’t need the outside stimulation)
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amother




Ruby
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 1:14 pm
amother [ Calendula ] wrote:
And it's not necessarily an optimal system. A lot of these grandmas are very resentful.

This

My mom just told me how hard it was for her when she babysat for us while I was working-
She loved it but it came to a point where it was too much for her.

There was a thread recently about older moms having babies and everyone was adamant that it wasn’t fair to the child
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Another mom




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 5:20 pm
Zehava wrote:
You spent 20 years on your kids who only have you as their mom, as opposed to on a career where you’re easily replaceable. For 20 years instead of running yourself ragged and juggling multiple balls you instead devoted yourself fully to your family. I can’t think of a better way to have spent those years.
Now, if you’re feeling unfulfilled, you can start looking into your options.
But to work for 20 years only because then you’ll have more credentials 20 years down the line? That just seems silly. Besides which, there are no guarantees. People have worked hard for years and then been laid off and left with nothing. But your kids will forever be better off for the time you invested in them.

Beautifully said, Zahava!
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daagahminayin




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 5:56 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Even if I had no degree but was working in a field for the past 20 years I would be worth something.


OP, you have infinite worth. Your worth does not depend on your degree or work.

I know that’s not what you meant but your words stood out to me.
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amother




Whitesmoke
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 6:23 pm
Zehava wrote:
Are you maybe sending the wrong value to your boys by doing everything in the house? Isn’t it crippling to them that they’ll always need to rely on someone else to do the laundry and cooking? Isn’t that a privilege? Who says they’ll always have a woman in their life to do these things for them? Why don’t you make your husband cook dinner some days just so your boys aren’t denied the ability to do housework?


Both should be doing both.
Boys should be taught housework, girls should be given tools to work out of the house. Why define one gender to a certain role?
It's never a good idea to put all eggs in one basket.

Being a jack of many trades is an asset not a liability.


Last edited by amother on Mon, Dec 20 2021, 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




DarkGreen
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 6:30 pm
Op I just want to tell you that I took an entry level office job at age 40. I worked my way up and 5 years later I more than doubled my salary. Your experience as a mom all these years is worth A LOT!! You most likely used lots and lots of skills to run your home, advocate for your kids in their schools, communication skills , interpersonal skills, team work etc. etc. Do not underestimate your worth!!! And a dedicated, mature, conscientious employees is invaluable.
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amother




Whitesmoke
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 6:39 pm
Zehava wrote:
As hard as a man works he’s still not running a household in addition. He’s still only doing one job. So by definition still his more downtime than a woman working full time.


You're projecting your experiences on others.
Other men are partners in running the household. Even if yours isn't.

Additionally, you are obviously privelidged when it comes to money.
One thing I've observed is that when people have money, they do not recognize how difficult it is to have a low income.
It is always wise to plan ahead. Of course things might not work out as planned, but you need to do yours.


Last edited by amother on Mon, Dec 20 2021, 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Gardenia
 

Post Thu, Oct 14 2021, 7:08 pm
I don’t understand why people are so quick to judge SAHMs. Maybe it’s because working mothers feel extremely judged, too. I work because I like to make money and I find my job fulfilling. I am also running myself ragged and iyH when my husband’s earning potential increases, I hope to cut back my hours to 9-3 rather than full time. I am in a therapy field and in my current capacity this is a realistic plan, though not sure if this can happen if we move to a location where my field isn’t as lucrative.
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