Tax on disposables

amother

Marigold

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 2:38 am

amother [ Thistle ] wrote:

are they also highering the minimum wage so ppl can actually afford groceries?
no, 27 shekel an hour is enough.
my husband worked 12 hour days earning 27 an hour and we went into debt trying to cover our month.
its not enough that everything is going up in price, (oil that used to be 5.90 is now 12.90) let's ADD TAX
this is the reason I'm anti-zionist

Actually I have heard talk of raising minimum wage. (Which is 29.12 nis by the way).

In any case, I am assuming that in most countries of the world it's really tough to get by on minimum wage jobs.

etky

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 2:39 am

amother [ Thistle ] wrote:

https://www.jpost.com/israel-n.....82578

Teomima

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 3:20 am

amother [ Thistle ] wrote:

Oy where to start with this one.

First of all, if you're unhappy with the Israeli government and its taxation policies, your solution is simple: don't live here. That's no reason to oppose the existence of a Jewish state.

Secondly, all the prices you quote are inaccurate. If you want your argument to carry weight, be accurate and precise. Your minimum wage figure is inaccurately low and your oil figure (which oil? Cooking? Heating? Gasoline?) is inaccurately high.

Third, nearly everything is taxed, everywhere, in every country. Some countries, like the US, add sales tax in addition to the listed prices. Some countries, like Israel, include the sales tax in the item's price. Tax is not a bad thing. It's what pays for our schools, our streets, benefits people receive, etc. Tax is everyone doing their share to help contribute to the overall cost of running a country. You want to benefit from that country? Pay the tax.

Fourth, if you can't make ends meet on one income, do what millions of other couples do and have a second income. On average, Israeli households have 1.5 earners per household:
https://www.cbs.gov.il/he/publ.....2.xls

Finally, everyone is still blowing all of this out of proportion. We're talking about an increased tax on disposable items. Why is this such a big deal?

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 7:21 am

Teomima wrote:

https://www.bhol.co.il/news/1288517
They have a dishwasher. They claim the issue is they have no one to work it. That's a stupid excuse.

Not exactly. He's claiming that serving 12,000 meals over Shabbos when bochurim can't run the dishwasher is impossible without the ability to find non Jews. He's also saying the health ministry doesn't allow reusable plastic due to scratches that can't be sanitized well, which means the yeshivos would need to invest in glass dishes.

amother

Marigold

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 7:43 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

And he complains about that.
Would he rather he was allowed to use reusable plastic, even though its unsanitary?
And why does he think glass dishes are more expensive than reusable plastic?

LovesHashem

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 7:53 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Maons use reusable plastic - so this doesn't make sense. Why would a maon be allowed but not a yeshivah?

amother

Celeste

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 8:13 am

Didn't read through everything but I'm just wondering if it will be cheaper to order on Amazon and have it shipped here. I probably use way too many disposables and I have two dishwashers. I just find it makes my life much easier. But I will probably be one of those people to use less when the tax is applied. But I'm also one of the people that I could pay it no problem. I really feel for the families that it's really going to affect. I'm going to check Amazon prices now.

Teomima

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 8:13 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

A: There is no reason they need to use reusable plastic. Glass or ceramic dishes are just as affordable.

B: Even if his ridiculous argument about davka shabbat bears any weight, then fine, use disposables on shabbat (though for the price of all that plastic, they can pay a foreign worker to operate the machine for a few hours). What's his excuse the rest of the week?

southernbubby

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 8:23 am

amother [ Nasturtium ] wrote:

Sadly I read a quote from Avigdor Lieberman like about too bad if this hurts chareidim who may rely on this convenience at times.
Sure resonates.
Seems these days a lot can fly under the guise of "environment" and other "acceptable" issues.

Because he is also taking away child care subsidies from kollel families with full time working mothers because the fathers are not engaged in something lucrative, such as college or job training.
He has always been anti-chereidi. I once started a thread on here when some religious Zionist rabbonim were asking people not to use disposable tableware during Yom tov because of the environment and many commented that water for dish washing is more expensive in Israel than disposables and that the plastic in disposables in Israel was super thin so it wasn't the landfill issue that it was being turned into.
I would say that plastics are now being blamed for a number of health issues and glass, ceramic, china, stoneware, etc doesn't leach the chemicals into food like plastic does so anyone who has a choice should choose real dishes over throw aways.

amother

Azalea

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 8:32 am

amother [ Thistle ] wrote:

There wouldn't be a minimum wage without the state!

The lack of hakaras hatov is unbecoming.

LovesHashem

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 8:33 am

southernbubby wrote:

Because he is also taking away child care subsidies from kollel families with full time working mothers because the fathers are not engaged in something lucrative, such as college or job training.

That's being put on hold for now due to arguments that learning to gain smicha, to become a Rabbi is considered job training to some degree.

LovesHashem

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 8:35 am

amother [ Lotus ] wrote:

Maybe because in a maon no one's cutting up their food on the plate?

I've been there, their plates definitely have deep scratches in them. And things get cut up on them by the metapelets as well.

Maybe glass is more dangerous for toddlers, but if it's safe enough to be used it should be allowed everywhere.

amother

Crimson

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 8:37 am

Teomima wrote:

A: There is no reason they need to use reusable plastic. Glass or ceramic dishes are just as affordable.

They are affordable, but they are also breakable. Bochrim are often careless, and there would be regular breakages. There would be inevitable kashrut problems when something got mixed up or went into the wrong dishwasher.

I think the difficulty is as much about changing the mindset as changing the dishes, though I think this change in mindset needs to happen for a number of reasons. They need to understand that they have a duty to the world, not that the world is just there to be used. Treating your plate with respect, and at the end of the meal getting up and putting the plate in a dishwasher or at a collection point is a microcosm of that.

I used to work next to a yeshiva, and if you walked past the dining room after meals, you could see long tables covered with plastic tablecloths, with used plastic plates lying all over them. Later someone would come along and roll up the plastic and throw it all away. There was no responsibility and no accountability. Changing that attitude is the real issue with a yeshiva switching to inexpensive glass or ceramic plates.

amother

Natural

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 8:46 am

I went to a very big seminary in Israel and they had real dishes and industrial dishwashers but not everything came out clean. The plates were somewhat ok but the forks would sometimes have food stuck between the prongs and the rims of the bowls were gross.
I was so disgusted by it that I would use my own chad peami.

Let's just hope they don't have a hepatitis breakout and that Corona cases don't start going up when everyone starts eating off the same dishes.

amother

Marigold

Fri, Oct 22 2021, 9:02 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

As I said, I work at a large dorm in Israel and have worked at other dorms previously. Not as large as this yeshiva, but large nonetheless.

The army, dorms, mechinot etc all manage with real dishes. As do catering halls btw.