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Forum
-> Coronavirus Health Questions
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amother
Arcticblue
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 Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:41 pm
| Laiya wrote: | It's legitimate to compare Jan. through the current date, with prior years. In April 2020, excess mortality figures were considered reliable for calculating covid deaths, when compared with months Jan. through April of prior years. As well as May, June, etc.
As far as our own community, who is keeping track? Mortality figures specifically broken down by age and cause of death? And without autopsies, how would it even be possible to definitively attribute the cause of death to the vaccine? |
Running out of time here to respond. If there would be any significant impact in more younger people dying, we'd see it ourselves. Our large communities are at least 50% vaccinated. If younger people start dying in larger than normal numbers, it would be fairly evident. We'd also know someone, or of someones who would have suddenly dropped dead after the vaccine.
In my own circle, some family members are vaccinated, some neighbors are, some friends are, the majority of my workmates are (I work in a huge cooperation), and not one person can name a person or knows of a person third or fourth hand who has died from the vaccine. Yet, most of us know someone or have of someone(s) who have died from Covid.
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amother
Arcticblue
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:43 pm
| amother [ Olive ] wrote: | [/b]
How do you know this for a fact? |
In tight knit communities, where levayas are publicized, and news of any young unexpected death circulate quickly, it's self evident. If we'd have the names and numbers to bandy about, it would be on everyone's tongue. Instead everything is just referring to vague assumed numbers.
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amother
Whitewash
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:47 pm
| Laiya wrote: | Not with consistency across age groups.
Definitely not when covid patients receive early treatment, in which case severe illness is rare.
And not the specific types of adverse reactions that have been reported from the vaccines. |
Monoclonal antibody treatment reduces the incidence of covid death by 80% (as contrasted to vaccination, which reduces the risk by about 95%). So plenty of people are still dying.
You should, of course, be aware that it does NOT confer long term immunity. So that you can expect to get covid again, and again, and again. So that the pandemic never ends.
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amother
Puce
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:47 pm
| amother [ Arcticblue ] wrote: | Again, if this would be in significant numbers, there would be no way to hide this. There hasn't been a rise in heart attack numbers overall either to account for the truth of this either. Think about it for a second - close to 7.5 BILLION vaccines have been administered. If this would hold true for 0.01% of them, that makes it 7,500,000 people. There's no way they can hide that. Nor can they hide 0.001% either - thats 750,000 people.
Compare those numbers to Covid deaths - thats about 5 million now. We've all heard, seen or experienced these numbers. Where are they hiding all these vaccine deaths? |
Side point, but the majority of covid deaths were from earlier waves when it presented much more seriously.
Most people coming down with covid now are having very mild cases.
If covid was as serious as it was in march 2020, I guarantee a lot more people would be getting vaccinated.
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Ema of 5
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:48 pm
| amother [ Arcticblue ] wrote: | | In tight knit communities, where levayas are publicized, and news of any young unexpected death circulate quickly, it's self evident. If we'd have the names and numbers to bandy about, it would be on everyone's tongue. Instead everything is just referring to vague assumed numbers. |
The numbers are higher for adults who are vaccinated than kids. I know many adults who are vaccinated, but very few kids.
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amother
Arcticblue
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:50 pm
| Ema of 4 wrote: | | The numbers are higher for adults who are vaccinated than kids. I know many adults who are vaccinated, but very few kids. |
We are talking about the younger adults here, not the kids.
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amother
Puce
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:50 pm
| amother [ Arcticblue ] wrote: | Running out of time here to respond. If there would be any significant impact in more younger people dying, we'd see it ourselves. Our large communities are at least 50% vaccinated. If younger people start dying in larger than normal numbers, it would be fairly evident. We'd also know someone, or of someones who would have suddenly dropped dead after the vaccine.
In my own circle, some family members are vaccinated, some neighbors are, some friends are, the majority of my workmates are (I work in a huge cooperation), and not one person can name a person or knows of a person third or fourth hand who has died from the vaccine. Yet, most of us know someone or have of someone(s) who have died from Covid. |
Most people don't know someone who died from covid in recent months. Most of the deaths were in 2020. Covid has evolved.
Happens to be I do personally know someone who died from the vaccine.
The thing is with the vaccine, I don't think most people are worried about dropping dead instantly. There are other risks, some of which may be seen over time.
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amother
Pewter
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:52 pm
| amother [ Dandelion ] wrote: | | It was the "privileged" people who left their livelihoods behind to escape pre-Holocaust Europe. Privilege? Or something else? |
Wow. Not relevant.
Bh I’m not nor are any of us facing a choice between genocide and feeding our children.
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amother
Arcticblue
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:52 pm
| amother [ Puce ] wrote: | Side point, but the majority of covid deaths were from earlier waves when it presented much more seriously.
Most people coming down with covid now are having very mild cases.
If covid was as serious as it was in march 2020, I guarantee a lot more people would be getting vaccinated. |
Again - I'm not posing arguments for or against vaccines here. I'm just poking holes in flawed arguments. The propaganda and faulty science triggered me, hence my replies.
There are plenty of legitimate arguments to pose against the vaccine. There's no need to come up with flawed ones.
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amother
Puce
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:54 pm
| amother [ Arcticblue ] wrote: | Again - I'm not posing arguments for or against vaccines here. I'm just poking holes in flawed arguments. The propaganda and faulty science triggered me, hence my replies.
There are plenty of legitimate arguments to pose against the vaccine. There's no need to come up with flawed ones. |
What I'm saying is that if you're comparing covid deaths to vaccine deaths, it has to be current covid deaths, not from when covid was infinitely more deadly.
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Laiya
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 7:59 pm
| amother [ Arcticblue ] wrote: | | In tight knit communities, where levayas are publicized, and news of any young unexpected death circulate quickly, it's self evident. If we'd have the names and numbers to bandy about, it would be on everyone's tongue. Instead everything is just referring to vague assumed numbers. |
This has happened in my community recently. R"l. And people are asking why this terrible gezeria. But it doesn't occur to people to make the connection to the vaccines. Sometimes things hide in plain sight.
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Laiya
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 8:01 pm
| amother [ Whitewash ] wrote: | Monoclonal antibody treatment reduces the incidence of covid death by 80% (as contrasted to vaccination, which reduces the risk by about 95%). So plenty of people are still dying.
You should, of course, be aware that it does NOT confer long term immunity. So that you can expect to get covid again, and again, and again. So that the pandemic never ends. |
MAB is not the only early treatment.
And the vaccine reduces risk at a steadily depreciating rate which is why the hospitals are filled with many vaccinated patients.
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amother
Arcticblue
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 8:03 pm
| amother [ Puce ] wrote: | | What I'm saying is that if you're comparing covid deaths to vaccine deaths, it has to be current covid deaths, not from when covid was infinitely more deadly. |
USA Covid Deaths:
USA 2020: ~352,000
USA 2021: ~399,000
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amother
Whitewash
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 8:19 pm
| Laiya wrote: | MAB is not the only early treatment.
And the vaccine reduces risk at a steadily depreciating rate which is why the hospitals are filled with many vaccinated patients. |
Hospitals have a very few vaccinated patients, most of whom are elderly or have other health issues.
ICUs are filled with unvaccinated patients.
| Quote: | Among 1197 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 between March 11, 2021, and July 14, 2021, 142 (11.9%) were vaccinated breakthrough cases and 1055 (88.1%) were unvaccinated. Compared with unvaccinated cases, vaccine breakthrough cases were older and had more chronic medical conditions (Table). Compared with unvaccinated cases, vaccine breakthrough cases less commonly received ICU-level care (24.6% vs 40.1%; absolute difference, −15.5%; 95% CI, −23.1% to −7.8%; P < .001) and invasive mechanical ventilation (7.7% vs 23.0%; absolute difference, −15.3%; 95% CI, −20.4% to −10.2%; P < .001) (eTable 6 in the Supplement).
Unvaccinated patients accounted for 93.9% (261/278) of cases with disease progression to death or invasive mechanical ventilation. The composite of death or mechanical ventilation was experienced by 17 of 142 (12.0%) vaccine breakthrough cases and 261 of 1055 (24.7%) unvaccinated cases. Among patients hospitalized with COVID-19, death or invasive mechanical ventilation was associated with a lower likelihood of vaccination (aOR, 0.33; 95% CI, 0.19-0.58) (Figure 3). Restricting to cases admitted with hypoxemia (n = 902, 75.4% of cases), death or mechanical ventilation was also associated with a lower likelihood of vaccination (aOR, 0.30; 95% CI, 0.16-0.58). Receipt of 1 or more COVID-19–related therapeutics during hospitalization was also associated with a lower likelihood of vaccination (aOR, 0.32; 95% CI, 0.20-0.52) (eTable 7 in the Supplement).
Unvaccinated patients accounted for 91.0% (91/100) of deaths among patients with COVID-19 in this study. Death occurred in 9 of 142 (6.3%) vaccine breakthrough cases and 91 of 1055 (8.6%) unvaccinated patients with COVID-19. Progression to death after COVID-19 hospitalization was associated with a lower likelihood of vaccination (aOR, 0.41; 95% CI, 0.19-0.88). |
https://jamanetwork.com/journa.....86039
See also Rates of covid infection by vaccination status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-da.....tatus (showing rates vastly higher among the unvaccinated)
Rate of covid hospitalization by vaccination status (showing magnitudes greater hospitalization among the unvaccinated) https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-da.....ation
If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.
Anecdotally, I live in a community with an extremely high vaccination rate. B'li ayin hara, we have not seen an increase in deaths, particularly not among the young and healthy. It would be difficult to hide. They're certainly not being disguised as covid deaths, if that's what you're thinking. We're highly vaccinated, so (b'li ayin hara) not seeing those either.
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amother
NeonOrange
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 8:21 pm
| amother [ Arcticblue ] wrote: | USA Covid Deaths:
USA 2020: ~352,000
USA 2021: ~399,000 |
How many of those who died were treated early? Dr Zelenko who is all for early treatment said that he BH did not send even one patient to the hospital in the past 6 months. And he treated thousands during those months including elderly.
Early treatment = nearly no deaths.
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Mommyg8
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 8:24 pm
| amother [ Arcticblue ] wrote: | Running out of time here to respond. If there would be any significant impact in more younger people dying, we'd see it ourselves. Our large communities are at least 50% vaccinated. If younger people start dying in larger than normal numbers, it would be fairly evident. We'd also know someone, or of someones who would have suddenly dropped dead after the vaccine.
In my own circle, some family members are vaccinated, some neighbors are, some friends are, the majority of my workmates are (I work in a huge cooperation), and not one person can name a person or knows of a person third or fourth hand who has died from the vaccine. Yet, most of us know someone or have of someone(s) who have died from Covid. |
I'm saying this under my SN so you can pm me for verification - my husband has a coworker who has had THREE family members die after taking the first vaccine shot. Maybe it's a coincidence.... even so, I find it strange that working in a huge corporation, not one person can name someone who died from the vaccine. Did you ask each one? Or are you just assuming?
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amother
Almond
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 8:25 pm
| amother [ Whitewash ] wrote: | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2786039
See also Rates of covid infection by vaccination status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-da.....tatus (showing rates vastly higher among the unvaccinated)
Rate of covid hospitalization by vaccination status (showing magnitudes greater hospitalization among the unvaccinated) https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-da.....ation
If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.
Anecdotally, I live in a community with an extremely high vaccination rate. B'li ayin hara, we have not seen an increase in deaths, particularly not among the young and healthy. It would be difficult to hide. They're certainly not being disguised as covid deaths, if that's what you're thinking. We're highly vaccinated, so (b'li ayin hara) not seeing those either. |
Why is it that everyone thinks the only side effect is death? I've heard of early onset dementia, word finding issues, ammenhoria, myocarditis, unexplained weight loss miscarriage, blood clots, stroke etc. etc. Not all conditions people experience are made public. Death is not really the issue here and kids don't die of covid anyway.
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Laiya
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 8:27 pm
| amother [ Whitewash ] wrote: | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2786039
See also Rates of covid infection by vaccination status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-da.....tatus (showing rates vastly higher among the unvaccinated)
Rate of covid hospitalization by vaccination status (showing magnitudes greater hospitalization among the unvaccinated) https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-da.....ation
If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.
Anecdotally, I live in a community with an extremely high vaccination rate. B'li ayin hara, we have not seen an increase in deaths, particularly not among the young and healthy. It would be difficult to hide. They're certainly not being disguised as covid deaths, if that's what you're thinking. We're highly vaccinated, so (b'li ayin hara) not seeing those either. |
From the article you quoted, rates between March and July would be when the vaccine was at peak effectiveness. I don't think it is in dispute that the effectiveness wanes.
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Laiya
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 8:28 pm
| Mommyg8 wrote: | | I'm saying this under my SN so you can pm me for verification - my husband has a coworker who has had THREE family members die after taking the first vaccine shot. Maybe it's a coincidence.... even so, I find it strange that working in a huge corporation, not one person can name someone who died from the vaccine. Did you ask each one? Or are you just assuming? |
I suspect that at this point, everyone knows someone who died suddenly, recently. But they are not making the connection to the vaccine.
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Mommyg8
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Mon, Nov 08 2021, 8:29 pm
| amother [ Whitewash ] wrote: | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2786039
See also Rates of covid infection by vaccination status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-da.....tatus (showing rates vastly higher among the unvaccinated)
Rate of covid hospitalization by vaccination status (showing magnitudes greater hospitalization among the unvaccinated) https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-da.....ation
If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.
Anecdotally, I live in a community with an extremely high vaccination rate. B'li ayin hara, we have not seen an increase in deaths, particularly not among the young and healthy. It would be difficult to hide. They're certainly not being disguised as covid deaths, if that's what you're thinking. We're highly vaccinated, so (b'li ayin hara) not seeing those either. |
Time has moved on, the data has changed, and the rate of unvaccinated patients in the hospital from covid is no longer 92%, it is now 74%, and likely getting lower every day.
Young people were never really in danger of dying from covid so why in the world do they need to get vaccinated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/w.....697a1
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