How do I get dd to chew with her mouth closed??

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 10:29 am

She's 12, a little stubborn and stuck in her ways. I wish I could focus on the positive, and commend her for chewing quietly but she never does!!
She'll bring her food to the table, sit across from me
and chew with her mouth open. Every single time. I have a personal aversion to sticky mouth noises, and I have to remind her every. Single. Time to eat with her mouth closed. When I remind her, she does, but each time I need to ask, I get more impatient. I wish she could remember on her own.
What to do??? Reward her somehow when she remembers on her own?? Any ideas for a reward?

Aside for it grossing me out, she is socially awkward and I want to help her not be shunned by others even more.

amother

Mintgreen

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 10:39 am

She might have structural issues preventing her from chewing that way. I just took my kids for a myofunctional assessment and based on their mouth jaw tongue palate structure she explained exactly why they are noisy messy eaters. FWIW these kinds of issues are common in the neuro divergent population for various reasons. Outside of this, she may also have what I call cave man brain, they have highly aroused primitive parts of the brain that make them act like their life is in danger and they are in survival mode. The remedy for this is to figure out what’s triggering the arousal and calm their nervous system down. There are no quick fixes for any of this but it helps me be more empathetic when I understand where it’s coming from. When I find myself getting triggered from my kids eating I leave the room.

oneofakind

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 10:53 am

All of the above and if physically there is no issue, let her watch herself eat in front of a mirror.
Nobody learns well from an impatient teacher. If she had a choice, I'm sure she would choose to be as socially appropriate as everyone else. She needs to be taught with compassion and empathy. Otherwise, she gets even more stubborn.

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 1:08 pm

amother [ Mintgreen ] wrote:

Wow this sounds just like her. Thank you so much for the guidance. How did you learn about the survival-brain thing? Where can I get more info?

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 1:09 pm

amother [ Tomato ] wrote:

Have her checked out by an ENT. Maybe the reason she keeps her mouth open is that she can't breathe freely through her nose.

Yes I think we will look into this as well. I've asked her in the past if she has trouble breathing through her nose, and she said no. But I think she does. Her mouth is always slightly open.

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 1:15 pm

oneofakind wrote:

Thank you. I can suggest the mirror idea, but she will probably scream "no!" and refuse to do it.
You make a good point about patience, but this one really puts me to the test. I have limited patience as is, but make a conscious effort not to lose my patience with her (I will leave the room if I find myself getting angry.) Your suggestion is a good one, and I try, but I think I'm doing my best. There's a certain amount of patience/flexibility a 12 year old should have too.

amother

Mintgreen

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 1:17 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Wow this sounds just like her. Thank you so much for the guidance. How did you learn about the survival-brain thing? Where can I get more info?

Is she on the spectrum? Someone one posted a video on a group I’m on about asd kids having “Neanderthal genes” and the analogy totally clicked in so many ways. It also ties into theories about asd kids having vagus nerve issues, cell danger response always turned on, sympathetic mode, gut brain axis issues, cortisol issues etc. there is a lot of research on this. The connection to structural issues is that often the high arched palate that doesn’t let them breath through their nose, suction and chew properly also leaves their vagus nerve in perpetual arousal state. So it become a vicious cycle. There’s also a certain food anxiety/ocd that plays into this dynamic, at least for us. We’ve seen a lot of improvement with myofunctional therapy and also addressing neuroinflammation. Her inability to accept criticism and high level of defensiveness is all part of her feeling under constant threat. When my kid was in that place I literally stopped telling them anything that even smelled like instructions, it was feel bad interaction. If I couldn’t handle watching her eat I would leave.

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 1:28 pm

amother [ Mintgreen ] wrote:

Omg yes yes, this all is so on target.
She is very slightly on the spectrum. (I wrote a thread about her called "one of my kids is so hard to love".) She has an ever-growing list of foods she doesn't like, every week coming up with new ones to add. (Her go to foods are white/processed carbs.) I'm going to look up the things you wrote.

amother

Mintgreen

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 1:32 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I remember that thread well, I’m amother salmon on that thread, your dd sounds very very similar to mine. We are in a better place with a TON of work on the medical/biological end of things. She was an extremely picky eater too (part of the food ocd) and yeah, white carbs are addictive, and these kids restrict themselves to foods that give them a fix. A cave mans fantasy Wink

because it packs a ton of fast, useable energy and a dopamine fix to boot. Mine also avoided animal proteins because she had intrusive thoughts about their origins, yet another side of the food ocd coin. Fun times. Not. Hang in there.

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 1:45 pm

amother [ Mintgreen ] wrote:

Thanks
In that thread, you had asked if it's helpful to post a list of books that you found helpful. Would you do that?
Also, if you have any names of people that you saw that were helpful. We live in Baltimore, don't know where you live, but maybe we can still talk to a professional and get guidance.

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 2:11 pm

Magnolia, your are right. But sometimes a parent has come to the end of their resources, and has no more options to give. As far as they know. I'm going to try to learn more, which will give me new knowledge in how to deal with this.
Also, as hinted to in the term autism Spectrum disorder, it's a wide range, and each child falls on a different place on the spectrum. I think my daughter is in control enough of her thoughts to be able to control herself from screaming "no!" all the time, especially in public. Every parent knows their kid best, and I know, based on experience, that she's capable of more.

amother

Mulberry

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 2:11 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This is how it was for me with one of my dd’s when she was 12. Yup. Every single time almost I’d have to remind her. Calmly. I also can’t stand the sound of chewing with one’s mouth open

Eventually, with this and other adhd things, she settled out and matured in the next year or two. She’s not perfect and still has adhd but none of us are “perfect” and she’s made great strides in managing her personality and being more mature, settled etc

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 2:17 pm

amother [ Mulberry ] wrote:

Thank you for the validation. It was what I was hoping for when posting Smile

Thank you everyone

amother

Mintgreen

Sun, Nov 14 2021, 3:14 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

In these cases I find the cave man Analogy so helpful too. These kids can seem like regular or even super mature kids in some situations, but when their highly sensitive, highly aroused brains detect a threat (and the threat can be anything interpreted as such) their amygdala goes into overdrive and hijacks their entire brains including the upper brain that is meant to filter and regulate, and in those moments they literally can not control themselves.

I will never forget when my 8yo 85lb “cave man” dd had a massive meltdown on a water slide in front of a bunch of moms and 3 year olds. This is a kid who in school and most public situations is a model student and child. She had to be dragged off by myself and my husband because we simply couldn’t reason with her. 2 days later we found a lyme rash on her arm and upon examination the dr found her tonsils swollen up to her ears (presumably filled with strep). She wasn’t acting sick at all but her immune system was relentlessly attacking her brain. We put her on antibiotics promptly and continued them for about 6 months in which her behaviors slowly faded.