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Forum
-> Parenting our children
-> Teenagers and Older children
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amother
OP
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 Sun, Nov 14 2021, 2:56 pm
When is a kid “at risk?”
13 yo DS hates yeshiva. Hates davening, says it’s boring and meaninglessness. On ADHD meds. Finds school very boring. Very bright, totally unmotivated. Extremely attention seeking, opinionated, loud, risk taking.
No history of trauma, molestation etc. We BH have beautiful Shalom bayis.
Recently he started vaping, says it’s no big deal, that many bachurim do and he’s not getting addicted. He bought disposable vapes from older bachurim. Hid it as long as he could. We told him he can’t and got rid of it, so now he sneaks behind our backs.
Also bought himself an iPhone he thinks we don’t know about. We already pay for service on his kosher phone which we bought him once we saw he wanted a phone desperately and knew he’d buy himself one soon. Debating how/when to confront him because once we know it’s a war.
He’s the businessman type - always selling random stuff and making money.
OTOH - we have a good relationship with him! He hates learning but likes his rebbe and gets good marks. He’s a good older brother most of the time to the little ones. Offers to help out with stuff at home. Desperately wants us to be happy with him. When we express disappointment, he tries to convince us that what he’s doing is not so bad, or that he was just experimenting. If we make a big stink about things, he just sneaks instead of being open.
Is he “at risk?”
Asking because we need to know which types of yeshivos to apply to. Yeshiva is suggesting at risk types, but I think he’s going to go way down there and just needs good friends and warm Rabbeim to bring him up. He’s very easily influenced, wants to be cool.
Am I being naive?
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amother
Floralwhite
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 3:08 pm
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I have a similar son older than yours, and he’s bounced around a lot. Make sure you get true daas Torah because many well-meaning people will tell you to put him in an at risk yeshiva but that’s not usually a good idea for these types of boys. There aren’t actually any yeshivos that are a good fit, and it’s a big problem. The places for “good” boys won’t want him but the places that will take him have too much dangerous stuff going on. You’re going to have to find a bedieved solution and work hard to make it work. Keep him as close to home as possible. These boys mature slowly and being far away often doesn’t work out.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 3:14 pm
| amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote: | | I have a similar son older than yours, and he’s bounced around a lot. Make sure you get true daas Torah because many well-meaning people will tell you to put him in an at risk yeshiva but that’s not usually a good idea for these types of boys. There aren’t actually any yeshivos that are a good fit, and it’s a big problem. The places for “good” boys won’t want him but the places that will take him have too much dangerous stuff going on. You’re going to have to find a bedieved solution and work hard to make it work. Keep him as close to home as possible. These boys mature slowly and being far away often doesn’t work out. |
Thank you for this, because all I’m hearing is to send him to this and that OOT place.
Also, many approaches seem to say - he’s in a lot of pain, give him so much love etc but to be honest, I really don’t see it that way. Don’t see that he’s in pain or suffering, he just wants what he wants…
He does get a lot of love, but my point is that I don’t think he has deep emotional pain which is what every chinch expert we spoke to was trying to tell us.
We’re very confused…
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amother
Steelblue
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 3:26 pm
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Worth speaking with Rabbi Efraim Glassman, menahel of Torah Vodaas. He knows about most yeshivos out there and has been advising for years.
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amother
Amethyst
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 3:31 pm
To me this sounds like a case of making the derech too narrow so your kid falls off the derech.
If he doesn’t seem angry and confused and anti religious I wouldn’t send him to an “At risk” place but somewhere that they can be exposed to a more wider derech. Perhaps an out of town chofetz chaim type of place. Some schools that have interesting extracurricular activities. Don’t have any good specific examples but I wouldn’t label a kid who thinks a little more out of the box “ at risk”
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amother
Floralwhite
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 3:36 pm
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Yes, you’re right to be skeptical about the whole “just love them” approach which so many people think is the solution. These kids like to take advantage of that approach and will walk all over people who use it. Our kids need structure, expectations, and accountability in addition to warmth and encouragement. You have to find a yeshiva where kids are held accountable. You need to find rabbeim who are smart and with-it and don’t let the bochurim get away with chutzpah and breaking the rules. At the same time, they have to understand boys and know when to look away. You also should try to find a way for your son to learn skills toward a good parnassah. Feeling like they’re learning something that matters and will help them make money later is helpful at keeping them motivated to do the rest of their schoolwork and meet expectations.
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amother
Floralwhite
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 3:41 pm
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Be cautious about sending to places that are a different derech than what he’s used to unless that’s what he’s asking for. We tried that at one point and our ds hated it there. Big culture clash that we hadn’t seen coming because it wasn’t really all that different from our derech….
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amother
Floralwhite
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 3:44 pm
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I have spoken to the people who advise about yeshivos and haven’t found they really “get” my son. Kids with ADHD who are a bit rebellious but not really deep down, are hard to place. It’s worthwhile to ask them, but trust your own instincts since you know ds best.
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amother
NeonPurple
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 3:47 pm
Look into Shaarei Arazim in Monsey
In the man time, it sounds like your son needs to be kept very busy every day.
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amother
Cantaloupe
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 3:48 pm
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Teens love to rebel. I know of one Rav who said as this to his children who were rebellious: “you are over bat/bar mitzvah now I’m not telling you how u should commit your self to yiddishkeit so do as you please but not under our roof and follow the rules of this house. This means no internet or no phone in the bedrooms” just be firm
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Rubies
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 5:04 pm
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I have heard of vaping being the new norm in regular mainstream classes. That itself shouldn't be a factor of at risk.
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amother
Lavender
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 5:16 pm
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There is a rabbi bistritzky from project resolve that advises parents about all the different yeshivos. Project resolve is a division of relief resources.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 5:34 pm
| amother [ Lavender ] wrote: | | There is a rabbi bistritzky from project resolve that advises parents about all the different yeshivos. Project resolve is a division of relief resources. |
Googled them with no results. Do you have contact info? TIA
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 5:34 pm
| amother [ Steelblue ] wrote: | | Worth speaking with Rabbi Efraim Glassman, menahel of Torah Vodaas. He knows about most yeshivos out there and has been advising for years. |
Thanks! We might do this
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amother
Lavender
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 5:44 pm
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Rabbi Sruli bistritz Lakewood
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 5:50 pm
| amother [ Lavender ] wrote: | | Rabbi Sruli bistritz Lakewood |
Thanks
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amother
Bluebell
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 6:00 pm
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I don’t know about different Yeshivos But he is certainly not “at risk” he sounds very creative and talented and is figuring himself out in a world that doesn’t necessarily value these traits. it’s just a matter of finding a yeshiva that Is the the right fit. Stay away from anything that would make him feel like he is “at risk” which is a death sentence for self esteem.
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amother
Floralwhite
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 6:26 pm
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Sharei Arazim (and Sharei Adirim) are NOT for your kid. They’re great for a certain type of boy. Your kid is not the right type and he would be very unhappy there.
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amother
Hosta
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 7:51 pm
I don’t have any new advice, but I just want to say that you sound like an amazing mother. You recognize that you might have a complicated situation, and it’s obvious that whatever you do, you want to do it with love and sensitivity.
I hope it all works out. Parenting isn’t easy. 🤦🏻♀️
quote="amother [ OP ]"]When is a kid “at risk?”
13 yo DS hates yeshiva. Hates davening, says it’s boring and meaninglessness. On ADHD meds. Finds school very boring. Very bright, totally unmotivated. Extremely attention seeking, opinionated, loud, risk taking.
No history of trauma, molestation etc. We BH have beautiful Shalom bayis.
Recently he started vaping, says it’s no big deal, that many bachurim do and he’s not getting addicted. He bought disposable vapes from older bachurim. Hid it as long as he could. We told him he can’t and got rid of it, so now he sneaks behind our backs.
Also bought himself an iPhone he thinks we don’t know about. We already pay for service on his kosher phone which we bought him once we saw he wanted a phone desperately and knew he’d buy himself one soon. Debating how/when to confront him because once we know it’s a war.
He’s the businessman type - always selling random stuff and making money.
OTOH - we have a good relationship with him! He hates learning but likes his rebbe and gets good marks. He’s a good older brother most of the time to the little ones. Offers to help out with stuff at home. Desperately wants us to be happy with him. When we express disappointment, he tries to convince us that what he’s doing is not so bad, or that he was just experimenting. If we make a big stink about things, he just sneaks instead of being open.
Is he “at risk?”
Asking because we need to know which types of yeshivos to apply to. Yeshiva is suggesting at risk types, but I think he’s going to go way down there and just needs good friends and warm Rabbeim to bring him up. He’s very easily influenced, wants to be cool.
Am I being naive?[/quote]
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 14 2021, 9:09 pm
| amother [ Hosta ] wrote: | I don’t have any new advice, but I just want to say that you sound like an amazing mother. You recognize that you might have a complicated situation, and it’s obvious that whatever you do, you want to do it with love and sensitivity.
I hope it all works out. Parenting isn’t easy. 🤦🏻♀️
] |
This is such a nice comment. I really appreciate hearing this. Thank you!
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