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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:32 pm
How do you deal with the disconnect between the way schools interact with kids and the way parents are now interacting with kids? I find my schools, and my friend's school across many states and types, pick on the silly things. It's so hard to be patient and let my kids find their own way and become their own people when school complains so much. For example I have a kid that does well in school but likes to doodle. She's not disturbing anyone just doodling on her own papers. They complain non stop. When I point out that she's a top student and it's clearly not affecting her they still want her to stop because it's messy and annoys them. I have other such examples of silly things that really aren't disruptive but just aren't perfect and they put so much pressure on me and my kids. It's a good school and I'm happy with them. They don't throw people out and they aren't threatening anything. So please don't turn this into a bashing frum schools thread. I'm just struggling to figure out how to be laid back and let the small things slide when I know that school will be on my case for all these little things.
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mha3484




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:41 pm
I just smile and nod and tell them thanks for letting me know. I am never going to always be on the same page as my kids school. I aim for agreeing 85% of the time. To me that is more then good enough.
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OOTforlife




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:42 pm
Parenting is really different than a group setting, whether it's daycare or school. Things that may not be disruptive or annoying in the home when you have 1-10 kids with one set of home rules may become disruptive or annoying when you have to manage and also teach 30 kids from 30 different homes with different backgrounds and sets of home rules.

Maybe some of your issues have a practical solution. You could try buying your daughter a dedicated notebook for drawing to keep at school, so her papers wouldn't look doodled-on and messy. Would the school be okay with that?
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amother




Lily
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:43 pm
I think this is a great chinuch opportunity for you.

"DD, you know I totally don't mind your doodling. I know you're paying attention and that's what counts. But for some reason, it bothers them. Can we figure out a way to make them happy without driving you crazy?"

Can you get her a sketchbook to keep all her doodles in?
See if the school would prefer she use a fidget?
Come up with other ways to stay focused?
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amother




Junglegreen
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:45 pm
Don't let these things slide. Sometimes it starts complaining about the doodling and then they go on to complain about everything else. I complain back to nip it in the bud and I think they back off because they don't want to deal with upset parents.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:49 pm
I just gave the most recent example that came up. But I feel like once I fix one thing something else isn't perfect. It feels like I'm just adding restriction on top of restriction and I think that causes my daughter to resent school. Am I the only one with this issue? Are most kids 100% perfect in class?
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:50 pm
amother [ Junglegreen ] wrote:
Don't let these things slide. Sometimes it starts complaining about the doodling and then they go on to complain about everything else. I complain back to nip it in the bud and I think they back off because they don't want to deal with upset parents.


Can you explain more, how do you complain back? Like for this example what would you say to them?
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amother




Slateblue
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:54 pm
amother [ Junglegreen ] wrote:
Don't let these things slide. Sometimes it starts complaining about the doodling and then they go on to complain about everything else. I complain back to nip it in the bud and I think they back off because they don't want to deal with upset parents.

As a teacher I would find that very hard and upsetting. Instead of complaining back, why don’t you ask the teacher for a conversation about it? You’re definitely not making a great impression as a parent in the school. And the teacher definitely doesn’t feel that there’s a good team effort to help your child succeed. Her patience for you child will definitely be different than a different child who’s parents aren’t trying to ‘scare’ her.

Answering OPs question- it depends what it is. I have a rule- if a child feels like a fidget toy or coloring will help them concentrate, I talk to them first (I don’t give permission in the middle of class, I tell them to come during lunch to discuss it and once we talk about it I let them for the rest of the year). The only thing is that if it distracts the people around them, or if I see someone else playing with it, it gets taken away. They understand that.

I’m not sure what other things you’re talking about. As a teacher, I get in touch with parents about significant academic/social issues, and I shoot them an email if they haven’t given in HW in a while or if they weren’t wearing the correct uniform (if this happens frequently). I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. What other things do they email you about?
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amother




Red
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:56 pm
The school works for the parents and children, not the other way around.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:06 pm
amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:
As a teacher I would find that very hard and upsetting. Instead of complaining back, why don’t you ask the teacher for a conversation about it? You’re definitely not making a great impression as a parent in the school. And the teacher definitely doesn’t feel that there’s a good team effort to help your child succeed. Her patience for you child will definitely be different than a different child who’s parents aren’t trying to ‘scare’ her.

Answering OPs question- it depends what it is. I have a rule- if a child feels like a fidget toy or coloring will help them concentrate, I talk to them first (I don’t give permission in the middle of class, I tell them to come during lunch to discuss it and once we talk about it I let them for the rest of the year). The only thing is that if it distracts the people around them, or if I see someone else playing with it, it gets taken away. They understand that.

I’m not sure what other things you’re talking about. As a teacher, I get in touch with parents about significant academic/social issues, and I shoot them an email if they haven’t given in HW in a while or if they weren’t wearing the correct uniform (if this happens frequently). I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all. What other things do they email you about?


All those things I understand. It's nothing major like what you mention. Most are about how she goes about doing her work. She's just not a perfect kid and has a lot of quirks. I was a teacher so I understand from a teacher's perspective but I really think that she's not going to do well if they don't let anything slide. And I always ask if it's disruptive and most of the time the answer is no, but she still needs to stop because it's not the correct way. Anything disruptive I don't question and we work on it immediately.
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andrea levy




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:07 pm
OOTforlife wrote:
Parenting is really different than a group setting, whether it's daycare or school. Things that may not be disruptive or annoying in the home when you have 1-10 kids with one set of home rules may become disruptive or annoying when you have to manage and also teach 30 kids from 30 different homes with different backgrounds and sets of home rules.

Maybe some of your issues have a practical solution. You could try buying your daughter a dedicated notebook for drawing to keep at school, so her papers wouldn't look doodled-on and messy. Would the school be okay with that?


I agree. Buy a doodle notebook.
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amother




Slateblue
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:10 pm
I’m sorry OP, that’s hard. I’m not sure why they don’t give you any leeway.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:14 pm
Who’s the “they”? As in “they won’t let up”. The principal? The teacher? The entire administrative staff?
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:16 pm
imorethanamother wrote:
Who’s the “they”? As in “they won’t let up”. The principal? The teacher? The entire administrative staff?


The principal and multiple teachers. It's not the first year I've dealt with this. Although I do have to give some of her teachers credit, there were many that just let her be and she thrived under them.
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amother




Junglegreen
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:19 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Can you explain more, how do you complain back? Like for this example what would you say to them?


I would say that my child is s great student and shouldn't be called on doodling because it doesn't bother anyone and is not affecting her grades.

In fact, her not doodling may lead her to talk to other kids and that yes could be disturbing.

I would also point out that because she's a great kid she would feel like the teacher is picking on her and that could cause her to resent the class, so not a very good way of keeping a positive relationship.

Sometimes kids learn in a kinesthetic way and they need to draw/move in order to learn, so since she is not being disruptive if they could please allow her to do it since it actually helps her focus(which may be the case).
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:21 pm
I think what sometimes happens is that there’s this push and pull that gets out of control in these little interactions. The teacher is tired. Maybe overworked, underpaid. The student is perfect, but her sheets come in full of scribbles. So she says something. “She’s great but she doodles too much.”

The parent then says “I don’t think it’s a problem.”

The teacher has her hackles up. She wants some empathy and respect, and she doesn’t want to be dismissed. And so they repeat it and repeat the complaint even though they themselves know it’s not a big deal. But they want the parents to not dismiss them.

It’s not necessarily a perfect solution, but I like to agree with someone who’s complaining.

“Oh my gosh I KNOW. She scribbles everywhere! Totally understand where you’re coming from, it must be so hard to read her sheets! I actually mentioned something to an expert and they told me that apparently doodling makes you smarter! I know, I had no idea!!

https://www.techwell.com/techw.....ation

Crazy. But now that I realize this I think I’d rather her doodle than start disrupting your class! That would be awful for you!

You’re such a great teacher we are having such a good year this year. I want to tell you thank you for everything! Thanks for bringing this to my attention let me know if you need anything! “
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imaima




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:22 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
How do you deal with the disconnect between the way schools interact with kids and the way parents are now interacting with kids? I find my schools, and my friend's school across many states and types, pick on the silly things. It's so hard to be patient and let my kids find their own way and become their own people when school complains so much. For example I have a kid that does well in school but likes to doodle. She's not disturbing anyone just doodling on her own papers. They complain non stop. When I point out that she's a top student and it's clearly not affecting her they still want her to stop because it's messy and annoys them. I have other such examples of silly things that really aren't disruptive but just aren't perfect and they put so much pressure on me and my kids. It's a good school and I'm happy with them. They don't throw people out and they aren't threatening anything. So please don't turn this into a bashing frum schools thread. I'm just struggling to figure out how to be laid back and let the small things slide when I know that school will be on my case for all these little things.


I really don't know what to say. This is so bizarre.
I teach in a public school and kids are encouraged to bring these "mindfulness" colouring books or even knitting! to keep themselves busy without disturbing others.

Maybe they need to address the issue that their lesson is not stimulating enough that your daughter finds time to doodle.

My school complains that my kids laugh when others laugh or make jokes. Really? What are they supposed to do? They are normal kids! Should they act like aliens who don't understand humour?
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:28 pm
imorethanamother wrote:
I think what sometimes happens is that there’s this push and pull that gets out of control in these little interactions. The teacher is tired. Maybe overworked, underpaid. The student is perfect, but her sheets come in full of scribbles. So she says something. “She’s great but she doodles too much.”

The parent then says “I don’t think it’s a problem.”

The teacher has her hackles up. She wants some empathy and respect, and she doesn’t want to be dismissed. And so they repeat it and repeat the complaint even though they themselves know it’s not a big deal. But they want the parents to not dismiss them.

It’s not necessarily a perfect solution, but I like to agree with someone who’s complaining.

“Oh my gosh I KNOW. She scribbles everywhere! Totally understand where you’re coming from, it must be so hard to read her sheets! I actually mentioned something to an expert and they told me that apparently doodling makes you smarter! I know, I had no idea!!

https://www.techwell.com/techw.....ation

Crazy. But now that I realize this I think I’d rather her doodle than start disrupting your class! That would be awful for you!

You’re such a great teacher we are having such a good year this year. I want to tell you thank you for everything! Thanks for bringing this to my attention let me know if you need anything! “


Good theory but not it. I don't dismiss anything, I acknowledge all of it and say I'm aware. And I'm getting calls at home, it's not coming up at pta. So it's enough of an issue for them that they are taking out the time to call me at least once a month with a complaint.
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amother




Cyan
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:29 pm
my kids school doesn't sound like this. my dd always tells me that the humming..... that goes on in her class would drive me batty. and it does a diff. dd. I actually spoke to the teacher and she is containing it more now...
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:30 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Good theory but not it. I don't dismiss anything, I acknowledge all of it and say I'm aware. And I'm getting calls at home, it's not coming up at pta. So it's enough of an issue for them that they are taking out the time to call me at least once a month with a complaint.


Is switching schools an option? If it’s this excessive your children will likely learn to hate school.
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