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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
b.chadash
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 Wed, Dec 08 2021, 8:57 pm
| PinkFridge wrote: | | That book's a novel. Though very well-received. |
Yes I was just going to come back and edit my comment. This is a historical novel.
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shanarishona
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Wed, Dec 08 2021, 9:45 pm
What’s incredible is that Bais Yaakov was in existence for such a short time before the war -
And yet instead of dying out with that generation, it crossed oceans and stayed on through the years.
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Mom/Bubby/Morah
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Wed, Dec 08 2021, 10:13 pm
| b.chadash wrote: | What school did you go to?
As I understand it, every frum school today owes their existence to Sara Schenirer. She paved the way for Jewish education for girls.
You're right that there is mandatory education today. There was mandatory education back then as well in the US. The frum girls went to public school. When Rebz Kaplan wanted to start the Bais Yaakov in America, it was an uphill battle to get even the frummest families to send to her school.
Bais Yaakov was only the first to provide girls with their own Torah education. (With the exception of Yavne and a few other small town schools.) All the other frum schools today followed the example set by Bais Yaaakov. Today it is a given that frum families won't send their kids to public schools.
Moreover, I would say the biggest impact she had on the Jewish people is that she saved an entire generation from being lost to yiddishkeit.
The situation at the time was very bad. The boys were going to yeshivos and becoming talmidei chachamim, but they had no one to marry. The girls did not appreciate yeshiva bachurim and in fact looked down at them.
The preferred instead to marry enlightened young men who were educated in secular studies. The girsl were going OTD in droves. Without a mother who can impart Torah values and raise a frum home, Jewish generations could not exist. The future of the Jewish people was literally at stake.
After she started spreading Torah learning among the girls, the continuity of the mesorah was preserved.
So even if you went to a chassidish school, which does not connect itself to Sarah Schenirer, it is certain that every religious Jew today was impacted by her movement.
By the way, one of the best books I have read on this era is Promise Me Tomorrow, by Sarah Birnhack. It describes how the families were torn apart. Fathers and brothers would be absorbed in speaking divrei Torah at the Shabbos table while the girls would slip away to read whatever intellectual secular book they had. And then after the meal they would go out to meet up with other youths where they discuss the hot issues of the day- Zionism and Socialism. They would also be mechalel Shabbos in these meetings. Since the girls were deprived of the beauty and depth of Torah, they went to look elsewhere for intellectual stimulation.
Sarah Schenirer aimed to show them the depth and wisdom that is found in Torah. |
The first religious all girls school was Shulamith started in 1930 in Brooklyn. Reb. Vichna Kaplan started Bais Yaakov in 1938.
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Odelyah
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Wed, Dec 08 2021, 10:31 pm
| keym wrote: | | Yavneh was really only for the city Telshe in Lita. Not for all litvacks |
I was told there was also yavne in kovno
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Reality
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 12:17 am
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Thank you to all the ladies who answered my question. I had no idea about any of those divorces.
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worldtraveller
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 8:02 am
Thank you for your explanation b.chadash!
I did go to a chassidish school and it always irked me why they feel superior to most other schools. Like, they have their Rebbe to guide them so they probably don't see Sarah Schnirer as an inspiration.
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gonewiththewind1
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 8:29 am
[
Last edited by gonewiththewind1 on Wed, Dec 15 2021, 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dancingqueen
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 8:33 am
| b.chadash wrote: | What school did you go to?
As I understand it, every frum school today owes their existence to Sara Schenirer. She paved the way for Jewish education for girls.
You're right that there is mandatory education today. There was mandatory education back then as well in the US. The frum girls went to public school. When Rebz Kaplan wanted to start the Bais Yaakov in America, it was an uphill battle to get even the frummest families to send to her school.
Bais Yaakov was only the first to provide girls with their own Torah education. (With the exception of Yavne and a few other small town schools.) All the other frum schools today followed the example set by Bais Yaaakov. Today it is a given that frum families won't send their kids to public schools.
Moreover, I would say the biggest impact she had on the Jewish people is that she saved an entire generation from being lost to yiddishkeit.
The situation at the time was very bad. The boys were going to yeshivos and becoming talmidei chachamim, but they had no one to marry. The girls did not appreciate yeshiva bachurim and in fact looked down at them.
The preferred instead to marry enlightened young men who were educated in secular studies. The girsl were going OTD in droves. Without a mother who can impart Torah values and raise a frum home, Jewish generations could not exist. The future of the Jewish people was literally at stake.
After she started spreading Torah learning among the girls, the continuity of the mesorah was preserved.
So even if you went to a chassidish school, which does not connect itself to Sarah Schenirer, it is certain that every religious Jew today was impacted by her movement.
By the way, one of the best books I have read on this era is Promise Me Tomorrow, by Sarah Birnhack. It describes how the families were torn apart. Fathers and brothers would be absorbed in speaking divrei Torah at the Shabbos table while the girls would slip away to read whatever intellectual secular book they had. And then after the meal they would go out to meet up with other youths where they discuss the hot issues of the day- Zionism and Socialism. They would also be mechalel Shabbos in these meetings. Since the girls were deprived of the beauty and depth of Torah, they went to look elsewhere for intellectual stimulation.
Sarah Schenirer aimed to show them the depth and wisdom that is found in Torah. |
From what I read yesterday she was also a proponent of a good secular education as well.
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PinkFridge
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 9:22 am
| b.chadash wrote: | | Yes I was just going to come back and edit my comment. This is a historical novel. |
Made into plays too. It conveyed a wholesome and energizing spirit.
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Chayalle
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 9:27 am
| chestnut wrote: | | Frum girls were slerping with boys and prostituting? The first time I hear about it. Where did you read it? |
The first time I read this was on this site, and it was posted by Freidasima.
I would want a more factual source that this. (I do know that there were prostitution issues, girls from poor families taken to S. America and facing this. But haven't seen sources about willing prostitution taking place in Europe.)
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keym
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 9:32 am
| Chayalle wrote: | The first time I read this was on this site, and it was posted by Freidasima.
I would want a more factual source that this. (I do know that there were prostitution issues, girls from poor families taken to S. America and facing this. But haven't seen sources about willing prostitution taking place in Europe.) |
I heard it on a frum history podcast a year or two ago. I'm trying to remember where and what.
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b.chadash
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 9:55 am
Sara Schenirer was very advanced and forward thinking for her time.
She realized that in order to change the landscape, she has to start with the very little kids, since the older ones were too far gone.
It's amazing what a visionary she was. She had a long term vision of where she wanted to take this movement. By the time the kids were in their young teens, she had them teaching their own classes. It's mind-boggling how she did it all practically singlehandedly.
There is a famous story of Rav YEchezkel Sarna who addressed a large group of rabbonim and asked them which individual in the past century did the most for Am Yisroel. People guessed the Chofetz Chaim, Rav Yisroel Salanter etc. But he said no...the answer is, Sara Schenirer. If not for her, yiddishkeit would be completely lost.
Last edited by b.chadash on Thu, Dec 09 2021, 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RN613
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 10:16 am
| b.chadash wrote: | | Yes this is a very sad and horrific piece of history. The Mishpacha recently ran a serial, authored by Leah Gebber that centered around this issue. |
Yes- I remember reading this, and I was completely shocked. Mishpacha only discussed it in very vague terms, and I had to go google. There was an amazing follow-up piece by Leah Gebber that should be mandatory reading for all BY high school girls. She felt that we do a horrible disservice by portraying how assimilation of shtetl Jews occurred. The truth is much more disturbing and complex.
It bothers me how much whitewashing of Jewish history I am discovering as an adult.
https://mishpacha.com/everywhere-and-nowhere/
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YounginBP
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 11:03 am
| SafeAtLast wrote: | Most chassidishe schools do talk about Sara Schenirer.
Did you maybe go to Satmar? |
Hey hey. I went to Satmar and remember hearing about Sarah Schneirer. I did know she was divorced - I don't know if it was from school or not.
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ShishKabob
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 11:12 am
| RN613 wrote: | Yes- I remember reading this, and I was completely shocked. Mishpacha only discussed it in very vague terms, and I had to go google. There was an amazing follow-up piece by Leah Gebber that should be mandatory reading for all BY high school girls. She felt that we do a horrible disservice by portraying how assimilation of shtetl Jews occurred. The truth is much more disturbing and complex.
It bothers me how much whitewashing of Jewish history I am discovering as an adult.
https://mishpacha.com/everywhere-and-nowhere/ | Yes, The same way a 'gadol' just is portrayed as a 'gadol'. Many of them had really difficult years and less than stellar situations. It's a disservice because it doesn't portray the real story. For most people it would give chizzuk, hey, wow, that guy was also in the dumps and look what became of him? That means that I also have hope, like that kind of thing.
If we just portray 'gedolim' that they were tzaddikim from their cradle, it's a disservice. (of course some actually were, but not all at all)
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watergirl
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 12:26 pm
That’d be me  and you are welcome!!
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Batsheva1
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 12:39 pm
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I definitely recommend that book. Well written and will answer many questions that you have
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iyar
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Thu, Dec 09 2021, 3:37 pm
| ShishKabob wrote: | Yes, The same way a 'gadol' just is portrayed as a 'gadol'. Many of them had really difficult years and less than stellar situations. It's a disservice because it doesn't portray the real story. For most people it would give chizzuk, hey, wow, that guy was also in the dumps and look what became of him? That means that I also have hope, like that kind of thing.
If we just portray 'gedolim' that they were tzaddikim from their cradle, it's a disservice. (of course some actually were, but not all at all) |
It's more than just a disservice. It's wrong.
It's a terrible thing when we occupy ourselves with the perfection of our gedolim, when we focus on the final version of their characters. We tell stories about their accomplishments while skipping over their inner battles and the obstacles they faced. When a young person who aspires to achieve and accomplish in his Avodas Hashem experiences failures he thinks he's not cut out to serve Hashem because he doesn't have the perfect character that others had. If he knew what they went through he'd know that the war of the yetzer tov against the yetzer hara is part of accomplishing in this world and losing a battle doesn't mean you can't win the war.
The paragraph above is a translation of the words of one of our gedolim. It's a very loose translation, I don't think I did a great job with it and it's part of a much longer piece of writing so I'm not going to name him. The point he made was that it's not good to pretend that great people came into the world as perfectly formed tzadikkim from birth. Knowing that they faced hardship, failure, tragedy and indecision gives us hope when we deal with our own struggles.
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