S/O Why is there such a shortage of seats in shul?

amother

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:15 pm

With all of the "standing" threads I'm left genuinely wondering:

Is this such a thing that shuls run out of chairs regularly, every year on Purim?

Why is this happening? Isn't this extremely preventable? Don't shuls learn from year to year?

scruffy

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:18 pm

Usually due to lack of space for the chairs. Honestly it makes sense that less space is dedicated to the women's section if few women attend on a regular basis.

Although you could argue it's a chicken/ egg conundrum - do fewer women come because the setup is not ideal?

mommyhood

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:19 pm

This is an annual problem on Purim and yomim noraim. Shuls just can’t build and maintain large enough facilities to accommodate the women and children that only come 2 or 3 times a year.

amother

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:21 pm

Are all shuls made with a fixed size for the Ezras Noshim? I understand if it's a balcony that there's not much to do. But many shuls nowadays are built as a multi-purpose room with a movable Mechitzah.

amother

Strawberry

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:21 pm

Count your blessings. You're not in a neighborhood where big, magnificent shuls have difficulty getting a minyan and sometimes give up altogether. You really can't expect a congregation to invest in physical expansion for the sake of those who show up a few times a year (and chances are, don't pay membership dues).

amother

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:28 pm

I guess I don't relate to this mentality. If our shul got an overflow crowd for Megillah I'd be proud and thrilled and do our best to accommodate them. Not get mad that they aren't paying.

Our local rental place charges $1 per day for chair rental. It can't be THAT hard to get a sponsor to enable women and children to comfortably hear Megillah.

And I'm skeptical that there's always a physical space issue. Is the men's side always equally as crowded as the women's side? And are the Mechitzos permanently fixed in place or movable?

NotInNJMommy

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:30 pm

Many shuls don't plan for so many women to attend, for a variety of reasons. In many of these shuls, women don't typically attend even on most shabboses.

So, when occasions arise where more women show up, it automatically results in overcrowding.

amother

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:32 pm

NotInNJMommy wrote:

I understand that the first time it happens. But if it happens EVERY year on Purim, it's no longer a surprise. Is there really nothing to do about it? Rent narrower chairs and set up the room differently? Move the Mechitzah and make the men's side smaller for that day?

amother

Narcissus

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:33 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Shuls are built to accommodate the women that come on a weekly basis. It's not realistic to expect a shul to be built to accommodate women that show up once a year (with their children in tow.) Many many women don't go to their regular shul (where their husbands davn) for megilla. They go to a shul closest to their house or a shul where the timings work better for them.
Shuls in my community don't have a mechitza that divides the mens and womens section. It's basically like 2 separate rooms with large windows towards the men's section, or the women's section is the balcony.

amother

Narcissus

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:34 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There's nothing really to do that isn't being done already. The mens side is also crowded and most shuls don't have portable mechitza's.
OP, where do you live that this is so surprising for you?

amother

Clear

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:37 pm

the best option is probably to have multiple megillah readings possible at people's houses in addition to in the shuls... we have that in my community. personally I go to a private reading for an elderly women, no little kids, enough chairs Wink

....

in terms of space I know one shul that supposedly the first shabbos after it was built they looked around and thought, hm maybe we should have built it bigger.

amother

Narcissus

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:39 pm

amother [ Clear ] wrote:

....

in terms of space I know one shul that supposedly the first shabbos after it was built they looked around and thought, hm maybe we should have built it bigger.

There are later readings, but most people want to go the earliest possible and be over with it.

NotInNJMommy

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

In some cases, it's really space. There's no room, and there's no budget or even options to be somewhere larger a few times a year--let alone all year for those few occasions. In some cases, the men need just as much space as usual or are even more crowded than usual. And some don't have mechitzas that can just 'be moved'. So, I'm not surprised when I read that there are space issues.

Yes, it's unfortunate. I think congregations with those constraints need to make it a point to have women's readings where the women take over the larger men's section for that reading or just somehow more readings period. (I've been to one that does this regularly when I've found myself in brooklyn for purim--and I'm sure they aren't alone in this.)

mommyhood

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:41 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

In every shul I’ve ever been they’ve moved the mechitza or set up a mechitza within the men’s section to make more seats for the women. Many they could accommodate some more seats but they’re still going to come up short.
It’s not just an issue for the women. Dh makes sure to come early to get a seat even though he officially has a makom kavuah.

Last edited by mommyhood on Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Clear

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:42 pm

amother [ Narcissus ] wrote:

There are later readings, but most people want to go the earliest possible and be over with it.

you can have one reading in the main sanctuary and another one in the "kiddush room" or library or however your shul is set up. personally I think having a reading that is bechavadik to the people is important. and as I said you can have them at other places besides for shuls, peoples houses, halls, schools... there are ways if it's a priority to the community.

keym

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:44 pm

Our men's section seats around 150 and our ladies section seats 25 on a regular Shabbos.
For Purim and Yomim Noraim, they remove the tables, move the mechitzas. The men's section now seats 120, and 180 men and (older than 9) boys come.
The ladies section seats 50 and 100 women and girls come.
We also have a ladies Megillah reading in which another 120 women come.

amother

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 2:48 pm

amother [ Narcissus ] wrote:

There's nothing really to do that isn't being done already. The mens side is also crowded and most shuls don't have portable mechitza's.
OP, where do you live that this is so surprising for you?

Not sharing specific location, but yes, most shuls are built as a large room that can be reconfigured as necessary.

But leaving aside that option, I'm just not understanding why this is not being addressed. As a previous poster mentioned, having readings in the multiple rooms of a shul, having another leining in a hall, in a school auditorium, arranging multiple back-to-back leinings - there are a lot of potential solutions.

I don't understand the mentality of not trying to fix an ongoing issue which seems to be relatively trivial to solve.

amother

DarkViolet

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 3:05 pm

I live in a town with a big yeshiva with a large kollel. Most of the families in my neighborhood are young and the mothers don't go to shul on a regular shabbos, they stay home with their kids. On the yomim noraim more women come, but a lot of the men daven in the big yeshiva, so they move the mechitza to give the women more space. On Purim the men don't go to the yeshiva, and the women do go to Megila. There are later readings, one in our shul, and some in other neighborhood shuls and people's houses. But a lot of women, myself included, want to be done as early as possible. So the main leining is very full.

We don't have other rooms to lein in. It's a small building. We also can't afford to build a bigger building for the once a year that it's a problem. I would rather stand for a half hour once a year than pay $20k towards an expansion. And I would rather stand than go to a later leining. So I do and I don't complain about it.

amother

Narcissus

Mon, Mar 21 2022, 3:10 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There are multiple back to back readings in shul & different locations. But most women flock to the earliest reading or to the one closest to their house. Only the earliest readings are crowded. At the later readings, there's usually enough room.