Hareidim in the IDF

shabbatiscoming

Fri, May 27 2022, 11:19 am

The consequence has always been the same, haredi or not. Conscription is for ALL jews. Haredi men who prove that they learn can get a deferment. This is not new. Without a deferment, if you dont go into the army, you are arrested. Again, nothing new, and not only for haredim.

imafriend

Fri, May 27 2022, 11:22 am

shaqued_almond wrote:

I saw a documentary on this from 8 years ago saying that Israel will require hareidi boys to enlist in the army. Here's the link for reference: https://youtu.be/me4FqdrmVBs
So what do hareidi families do nowadays? What are the consequences for not joining the army?

Things change by the minute in Israel, depending on the coalition.
Whatever was written 8 years ago did not necessarily go into effect.

shaqued_almond

Fri, May 27 2022, 11:40 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Thank you. Interesting that it's still the same.

shaqued_almond

Fri, May 27 2022, 11:46 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Why shouldnt it be the same?

Maybe it's just the way the documentary was edited. They said the army would seek a quota first but try to make it a law. Also out of curiosity, how long does a bachur have to be in yeshiva to avoid the army? Or is there no limit?

shabbatiscoming

Fri, May 27 2022, 11:48 am

shaqued_almond wrote:

Ill have to watch this after shabbat, its in about half an hour. As to your qurstion, im not sure.

WitchKitty

Sat, May 28 2022, 2:03 pm

shaqued_almond wrote:

As long as he's in yeshiva, he doesn't have to go to the army. The deferment must be updated every year. He needs to come sign he's still in yeshiva/kollel, with documentation in order to get it. The army comes once- twice a year to check yeshivos and kollelim that every one is where he's supposed to be.
After he turns 26 he gets a permanent exemption.

BadTichelDay

Sat, May 28 2022, 2:35 pm

There are a few units in the army that are especially geared towards chareidim who *want* to enlist (yes, it does happen). The Nachal Chareidi, for an example, and a technical support program for the airforce, forgot the name. They have their own, separate accomodations, mehadrin food and their own rabbanim and no female instructors.

But: Those are a few hundred each. The vast, vast majority of chareidi boys just get their deferments year after year and never set foot in the army. Some refuse to get even deferments on principle and then get into trouble. It is not going to change any time soon, because there would be massive country-wide chareidi riots if there were.
Various governments loved to discuss it but the status quo always prevails in the end.

I don't think it's good, as I'm DL and pro-army, but that's the reality.

shaqued_almond

Sat, May 28 2022, 10:42 pm

WitchKitty wrote:

Thank you so much for your thorough response!

LovesHashem

Sun, May 29 2022, 2:03 pm

shaqued_almond wrote:

Is there any animosity towards the hareidim because of this? I know there's tension between the seculars and the religious but does it exist between hareidim and DL?

Oh definitely.

There's been plenty of arguments on imamother alone between DL and chareidi women over the army.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, May 29 2022, 2:15 pm

shaqued_almond wrote:

Is there any animosity towards the hareidim because of this? I know there's tension between the seculars and the religious but does it exist between hareidim and DL?

Yes because they do not agree with each other's shita in the matter of army. Its a very big deal here.

iyar

Sun, May 29 2022, 2:36 pm

shaqued_almond wrote:

Is there any animosity towards the hareidim because of this? I know there's tension between the seculars and the religious but does it exist between hareidim and DL?

Yes very much so. It’s unfortunate but this is one of the big divides in our very divided society. We agree on so much, we all study Torah, keep Shabbos, build mikvas, but this is a big thing keeping us apart.
The DL philosophy is that Israel exists as a free state because it’s the first step in the Geulah process as Rav Kook taught. This isn’t accepted by Hareidim. People don’t get that worked up about ideological differences, but many DL feel Hareidim are shirking their obligations. They’ll tell you to look at their boys, they’re managing both Torah study and army duty and doing both well. Hareidim will give you a lot of reasons they don’t serve in the army and get deferments.
Interesting you’re asking on Yom Yerushalayim. You might notice the main celebration is in one of the (or THE) main DL Yeshivas with minimal participation by Hareidim. The PM was not invited as in recent years because though he started out as one of their star players he’s fallen deeply out of favor.
Bennett spoke and said it needs to become a day of celebration for all Israelis and not just one sector. Good luck with that Naftali. Though he bent over backwards to get them their Israeli flag parade through Shaar Shchem and the Old City most DL hate him with a passion and pray with fervor for the downfall of his government.
Sad.
Israeli Jews are very divided, much more so than we see in other countries.

etky

Sun, May 29 2022, 3:15 pm

iyar wrote:

Gotta give credit where credit is due. He did indeed rise to the occasion in this respect.

BadTichelDay

Sun, May 29 2022, 3:41 pm

Plonis wrote:

It must be said that the army does not have a great track record of respecting Chareidi sensitivities altogether. You aren’t guaranteed to get into a Chareidi unit either.

A lot of it is total cluelessness on all levels. It's like a vicious circle - because there are so few chareidim in the army, there is lack of sensitivity towards their needs. And because of the lack of sensitivity, very few chareidim are willing to take the plunge.

Examples of the cluelessness: I have to deal with soldiers in my job. I've had more than once secular soldiers asking me if I'm married (hint: I'm wearing a big fat headscarf). I also every now and then have soldiers trying to shake my hand. Recently that happened and I evaded the grip and the soldier got insulted and said that his hands were clean... I mumbled, it's because I'm a dati'a (frum) and he blushed and said oh, eh, didn't realize (hard to miss for the initiated, see headscarf, long skirt and sleeves).
I've also met a female Jewish soldier who grew up on a secular kibbutz and who had never participated in a Pesach seder in her life. Until she had to, in the army.
So, again, what I said about the vicious circle above. Different parts of Am Yisrael are sometimes so estranged from each other, despite living only a few kilometers apart in our small country.
Of course there are a lot of frum DL soldiers in the army, but they are not everywhere and not everyone gets exposed to them either.