Would you feel comfortable w prepared food at non-frum meal?

amother

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 8:17 am

we're BTs and my non-frum, non-kosher parents live in our community (which has plenty of Jews who want to live among Jews in a Jewish community but aren't necessarily frum/kosher). my parents want to have a couple over -- both to reciprocate and for socialization and to be hospitable -- for seudah shlishit and serve packaged food only with disposable plates, cups, etc.

the couple are BTs themselves and would understand having to eat packaged food at their non-kosher paents, etc. my q is whether it would nevertheless make them uncomfortable for my parents to invite them to third meal?

amother

Canary

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 8:25 am

Not really
Sorry to say because it matters how it’s heated up and opened and cut and condiments etc
Unless you are there and truly supervising sealed packages etc the whole time
Its different if you are going somewhere and bringing your own
Shabbos makes it all the more so complicated
Even with best of intentions people just don’t know and can make mistakes that are problematic
I’d say reciprocate and socialize by inviting them to a kosher restaurant on a weekday or send a kosher gift basket or other gift in thanks If nothing available where they live

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 8:35 am

This is so hard! My parents are in this situation too--they actually do keep a kosher home but it's not totally up to the standards of a lot of their friends in the community. They've invited friends for takeout (not on shabbos though) and my mother also asks them these kinds of questions when she invites them. Not all of them say yes, and it's tough to be in a situation where you can't reciprocate.

amother

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 8:42 am

amother [ Canary ] wrote:

Sorry to say because it matters how it’s heated up and cut and condiments etc

just to clarify, they'd serve all cold, packaged foods -- nothing heated or cut. things in jars or packages like chips, hummus, pita, etc.

amother

Yellow

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 9:17 am

a relative who has very low kosher standards invites us. The only way I feel comfortable is if I prepare the table. And not a single thing is open. I come there, I open the pack of plastic table clothes I help the host put on table and double it. next , I open the new packs of plastic plates, cup cutlery. put it on. I open a new bag of lettuce and squirt on new grocery dressing in a new plastic salad bowl. we have new packaged salmon.... don't forget to buy new spices, salt and oil, ketchup and mustard. I helped put away everything. Host had me labels everthing good kosher and we put it away double, tripple bagged in one of her cabinets all the extra non perishable (including plastics, oil, ketchup) that could be reused for my next visit. all perishables gets decided if I should take it home. because she bought it special for me. or if she will use it herself and buy new next time. like mayonnaise.
we are not careful about opening packaging in shabbos m

amother

Tan

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 9:42 am

Depends on the person.
We used to go to my aunt (on a Sunday) who would have paper goods. She would buy bagels, a package of lox, cream cheese, tomatoes and cucumbers (this was before the day of bagged lettuce). We knew that she knew what to do and that she respect our keeping kashrut.

Even regarding other members of a frum community,
some people don’t eat in other houses at all and they are “suspicious “ of everyone. Some hold that if the person is frum and says that’s are frum and keep kosher, unless you know otherwise you can trust the person (and yes-we were told that as a psak from our Rav)

amother

Canary

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 9:46 am

Right- I’m really sorry it’s one of those things that people are trying to be nice and accommodate and mean well but I’ve seen sometimes when push comes to shove people opening a package with a treif knife when the plastic one won’t cut it or other mix ups not deliberate

If someone who has yiras shomayim can be tempted how much more so someone who doesn’t Sad

Like it sounds easy and simple on paper but it’s not

Or later someone else thinks it’s ok because so and so ate there and doesn’t realize to be aware and has a coffee or something — things happen

Really best to ask your rov

Chickensoupprof

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 9:47 am

I will do it and for these things I ask a Sheila to a rav who is BT himself and works in kiruv and handles with this well. Eating is really social and important is really hard for parents especially to be left out my mom felt for a long time not good enough and punished…

watergirl

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 9:51 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

just to clarify, they'd serve all cold, packaged foods -- nothing heated or cut. things in jars or packages like chips, hummus, pita, etc.

100% yes. This is part of what every BT has to know how to work with. Most of us have asked our rav how to make it work when we first became frum.

amother

Opal

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 10:39 am

I am yeshivish FFB and have many not Frum relatives (my family and husbands family). I have eaten cold foods on paper goods there. Like deli sandwiches (label still on so I know kosher) with sides from that deli. Or once they bought packages of sealed deli and kosher bread and we all made our own. Or rolls, store tuna/cream cheese/lox.
Or anything packaged. Just use Paper plates, knives, cups...
This doesnt have to be a hurdle too large to overcome. We never did it on Shabbos but only because too far away. But if you want to do it, you can find a way.
When they invited us they tell us to bring our own food or what they are getting for us. Even my little kids know that these relatives dont keep kosher, they cant eat everything, but there will be something we can eat, just ask Mommy.
And we trust the relatives. It makes a big difference- they know we cant eat there and dont have an issue with it. No one is insulted or hurt. They wont give anything to our kids without our approval. Even if they saw us giving the same item when we got together 2 months ago. They will ask again because just in case...
Trusting the relative to not trick you, sneak something by, and that they will ask questions if not sure --- is a big help. (I have some extended family who don't act this way and it is much harder. "What could be wrong with X? It doesnt need a hechsher...")
Respect both ways matters.

amother

Bluebonnet

Sun, Jul 24 2022, 9:06 pm

We're FFB but we have nonfrum relatives. One couple in particular seemed to delight in inviting us davka for Sunday brunch at tref hotels, but it's possible they honestly believed that we could eat the fruit salad while they enjoyed their eggs Benedict with bacon. We politely declined, explaining that we couldn't risk giving anyone the mistaken idea that the buffet was kosher. OTOH their dd was amazing. When she invited us to her house, she bought a new grill and new utensils, which she left sealed in their packages for us to open, whole fruit and veggies for us to cut ourselves, kosher burgers and sausages in sealed packages, the works, and disposable tableware for everything.