Where is that pot of gold to run our school systems?

amother

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 12:03 pm

Let's think out of the box.

Let's take parents at their word that they don't have enough money for tuition. Some money, yes, but not 50% or more of gross income.

What's next?

Schools need money

Bubbies and zaidies are already bled dry from paying their own kids tuitions (and weddings).

We have a few multimillionaires among us. Where are they? Or are they already overextended?

Post war there were many well to do secular Jews who still remembered the alter heim and felt some kind of pull to support Torah chinuch. That's why my parents generation struggled less with tuition. Do those people still exist?

Government funds? Govt funding comes with govt oversight so I'm wary of pushing this option too far.

amother

Fern

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 12:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Not only that. Schools had much lower budgets back then. They were in much shoddier buildings, Rebbeim and teachers were paid much less and further behind, parents in general had much lower expectations from schools AND many of the schools teetered along on the brink of bankruptcy.

srbmom

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 12:19 pm

Quote:

Education needs serious revamping also.

For me this is more of a problem than the funding. I am spending tens of thousands of dollars a year on what I think of as glorified babysitting. The whole system needs an overhaul and I think included in that there can be major ways to save money.
Less emphasis on college being the goal, and more of a learned trade approach.
Also classrooms grouped by learning ability and interests rather than age

keym

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 12:22 pm

amother [ Fern ] wrote:

The financial reality was different for boomers also.
I think my grandfather who raised his kids in the 50s/60s told me that it was typical that the wife didn't work. The husband's salary went 1 week to mortgage, 1 week tuition, 1 week everything else, 1 week savings. That's how they were told to budget.

Rubies

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 12:30 pm

keym wrote:

This.
70s and 80s too.

amother

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 12:43 pm

srbmom wrote:

Quote:

Education needs serious revamping also.

I agree with you that considering what we pay and sacrifice for our kids chinuch, I'm not sure we're getting what we pay for.

And I attribute the unfortunate youth-at-risk/OTD rate to schools that are a poor fit and not meeting our kids needs.

It's a vicious cycle. Parents running ragged to pay tuition, leading to exhaustion and a poor home environment to raise kids, leading to kids getting turned off of Yiddishkeit.

amother

DarkRed

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 1:09 pm

State Government
We need to pressure out lawmakers to push for school vouchers for every child. We should be getting money from the government for each child to get a free education at the school of their choice.
I feel sad to write this but I hope the schools don't take advantage and charge tuition in top of that if we ever do get vouchers, like they do for upk

amother

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 1:14 pm

amother [ DarkRed ] wrote:

But here's my question.

We're already up in arms about government trying to mix into our kids chinuch and demand a certain amount of secular studies.

Don't you think there would be the same amount of scrutiny or more if the government was funding the schools?

My kids elementary (OOT) does half a day of limidei kodesh and in the afternoon they do an online publicly funded cyber school. Maybe more schools can look into that option. Although legally there may be issues with enrolling the kids in 2 schools. I think they get away with it by calling themselves a day care.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 1:17 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Oh, this this this. That's why government is NOT THE ANSWER

mha3484

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 1:19 pm

School vouchers only work in red states that have a strong belief in not mixing in. States like NY and CA and NJ will want to dictate what is taught and if they are paying they get to. We wont like it as a community.

I am in IL which has a state tax credit scholarship program which is an interesting middle ground option. It has brought a lot of money into my kids school over the years and benefits parents too. IYH it should continue as a program for many years!

amother

Vanilla

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 1:21 pm

amother [ DarkRed ] wrote:

Honestly won't help. Yeshivas will still charge tuition. I still was charged 4k for my son in upk, justified for 8:30-9:00 am when nobody was there anyway because most kids took the school bus. And many schools charge the full tuition for upk on top of getting full funds.

amother

Lemonlime

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 1:55 pm

keym wrote:

Oh please. Your grandparents lived with standards far far far far far lower than the “necessities” we had today. My millionaire grandparents had their boys share beds because when they all came home from yeshiva there weren’t enough bedrooms - there were only three.

amother

Springgreen

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 2:14 pm

amother [ Fern ] wrote:

This!! Expectations, standards everything etc have risen so we want really high quality education systems gotta pay more expensive tution ... can't have both ways sorry

byisrael

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 2:24 pm

I truly think that the only solution is going to be a voucher system - but I am also worried about the government oversight that will come with it. A tax credit system makes sense because essentially we are paying double - once for public school with our property tax (in NJ at least) and once with tuition. If we could be relieved of property tax because we are not using the public schools that would be huge. Although it would probably cause tremendous Anti - Semitism.

Someone had an idea once of a private public school system.
There would be a central communal fund that would figure out how much the cost is to educate per child, charge tuition per child to a centralized fund, and allocate fund accordingly. Then the community's wealthier members wont be badgered by a million different schools.

I think such a system is to vulnerable to corruption.

The reality is that education costs money. And most people I know even on the administration level are taking salaries lower then what a comparable job in the corporate world are making.

I remember my grandfather talking about RJJ being closed every few weeks because the rebbeim where striking because they weren't payed.

This isn't a new problem. Someone compared to the shtetl - where most kids went to work by age 9 and girls went to the public schools

amother

Snapdragon

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 2:38 pm

amother [ Springgreen ] wrote:

This!! Expectations, standards everything etc have risen so we want really high quality education systems gotta pay more expensive tution ... can't have both ways sorry

Maybe this is a huge piece of the problem and solution.
In most other areas, there are options for a bit cheaper, a bit more expensive.
Buying a house- I can choose the bare bones or I can choose to upgrade.
Same thing a car. Making a wedding.
Education is different. I have to pay the tuition I'm asked for and I can't "opt out" of some of those higher standards.
If I'm ok with a less sophisticated PA system, or fewer color copies or coloring sheets, or less playground equipment and just empty space and some balls. I can't choose to just pay for the "basic plan". I'm stuck paying for the choices that the board (who let's face it aren't usually people who pinch pennies) decides

amother

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 2:45 pm

amother [ Snapdragon ] wrote:

I don't believe that putting our kids into ramshackle buildings with no heat in winter is the way to go, nor would it substantially reduce tuition.

And even more than half your salary goes to tuition it's understandable to want more than the bare bare basics for your kids.

If we just eliminate anything but the desks and some chalk... Many kids needs would not be met. Some kids are not academically inclined and the extra curriculars are their life

amother

Snapdragon

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 2:53 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

1) if 1 of my kids is theoretically the type to be ok with a room and some chalk, then shouldn't I have that option of just paying for that.

2) I really wasn't talking to those extremes.
My boys school had a huge grassy yard that they spent close to 1 million on for playground equipment. In theory it sounds wonderful. But I really don't think it was necessary. They can buy a few dozen balls each year and the boys can still be entertained.
That's the kind of standards and "fat" I'm talking about.
My 1st grader comes home with a Parsha sheet that includes 8 coloring sheets for the boys to bring home. Not even to color in school. It's excessive and unnecessary.
My kids can have a wonderful education without.

amother

Azalea

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 3:00 pm

We are many more people now kein yirbu

For all the taxes we pay yes the schooling money should follow the child not the school
School choice would help all kids everywhere

Healthy competition makes for a better product

And they can stay out of our schooling choices it’s not the governments money government only has our taxpayer money we pay into it

amother

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 3:01 pm

Yes I think the school spends more than necessary on copy papers and it's wasteful. I still think it's only a small fraction of tuition funds.

I think nice posters and wall hangings in the classroom are educational. At least if a kid's attention is wandering they have something to focus on. I still remember the pisgamim posters in my first grade classroom. Again, only a very small part of a school budget.

Playground equipment, I agree doesn't have to be top of the line but has to be safe for kids to play on. A healthy neshama in a healthy body.