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PSA - summer rentals to a "Bubbie and Zaidy"

 
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 7:34 am
Be very careful. Make sure you write in the contract how your house will be used.
It's probably a good idea to call your neighbors and check in on how things look, with any renter.

My cautionary tale:
My neighbor goes away for the summer. She used to regularly rent out her house for bein hazmanim. She has a pool so lots if demand.

She typically would rent to a family related to someone in the neighborhood. You would see that neighbor's family around alot, and here and there other families, but it didn't feel any different than a regular family was living there.

One year She is very happy. The people renting have all their children married except one, and he won't be even there the whole time. They're even bringing their own cleaning lady! Much less wear and tear.

Wrong.

My neighbor left. The renters came.

Her house turned into a clubhouse.

From the morning after tisha bav, the grandparents weren't even there yet, there were cars parked all along the curb and filling up the driveway. This continued nonstop from morning until late at night the entire bein hazmanim. There were people streaming in and out of the house nonstop.

Im assuming most were the kids and grandkids, but I ran into a neice of the renter who said she'd been over a few times. A niece!

Seriously in one week that house saw more action than it did the rest of the year. And this went on for three weeks....

There was a bounce house in the yard on my neighbors recently reseeded lawn.......at night and on rainy days and random days we could see through the windows that it was moved into LIVING ROOM. (I guess better the bounce house than her furniture!).

I wondered if I should call my neighbor, but there were others on the block closer friends with my neighbor and I assumed they would call. I was also much younger than her and still very young.

I decided I would caution her the next year. But the next year she didn't rent out. Then she did construction and expanded and renovated her old house, decorating it beautifully. Since then she stopped renting.

I never told her this cautionary tale.

I wonder if any of the neighbors did?

This year, we were both busy and away alot for shobbos as summer approached so we barely spoke. Anyway, I had stopped asking about her renting status because she hws stopped. It never came up.

Well......the morning after tisha bav a car pulls up. Then another. And more. Officually some "grandparents" are staying there (different ones then first story). And it's possible only they are sleeping there during the week because in the middle of the night the cars are not there. But during the day.....
Some of these families I suspect are not even sending to camp this half but are using this (beautifully decorated) "clubhouse" all day. There are cars on the street and pulling up mammish late into the night and kids spilling out of the doors ices in hand nonstop. I see parades of people heading in and out of her back yard towards the pool. Shobbos? Can't Believe It too many people were there to casually discern. (Bh, we have not seen a bounce house this time, and at least if there is its in the playroom in the back!)

Even more difficult is I know the renter personally. As does my neighbor. But she's a generation older than us.
I honestly don't think renter can see what she's doing as it's "just her family" and it's not her house so she feels like it's party time.

One day beH my neighbor will fill her house w her own grandchildren, but for now she is not at that stage at all and this week's hosting was like the rest of the year put together.

If you rent, please take my cautionary tale to heart. Either put in clauses to prevent this or make sure you're charging appropriately, as in a lot more.

As for me, wwyd.
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amother




Molasses
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 7:40 am
understand your concern but would do
nothing
this is allowed
also why I wouldn't want to rent out my home
typically people take a fee upfront to cover any damages
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amother




Glitter
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 7:42 am
If the previous renters caused damage, you would think she would have seen it and learned a lesson. Obviously after the last fiasco she still feels comfortable renting out. I really don't think there is anything to say unless they are deliberately vandalizing the house.
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amother




Lightpink
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 7:50 am
What the issue? She seems fine with all of it
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amother




Starflower
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 7:51 am
You should ask a Rav, and to my knowledge it is not allowed. Unless the renters specified to the owners that they will be inviting their children, grandchildren and whoever they would like.
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 7:53 am
I don’t think you need the contract for how it’s used as much as clear responsibility to pay up if there is damages and maybe limit the amount of people or charge more if it’s more than x amount. It’s pretty self understood that people rent a house to do things their own house is too small for. A moonwalk on the grass is not a big deal, we have one that we put up all the time, doesn’t cause any damage(it was our Covid present when my kids were cooped up forever)
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 7:54 am
Why would you do anything? Its not your business and how do you know the family that is renting didnt tell her that other family members will be there?

This (and many other reasons) is why we rented out our home once and never again.

Never assume its just going to all go perfectly. Thats just not how it always goes.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 10:10 am
amother Lightpink wrote:
What the issue? She seems fine with all of it


So it seems that this is normal - from your post and the others.

I'm not so sure she's fine with it or realizes. The first time years ago from the way she spoke she thought there would be a lot less wear and tear.

And wear and tear is not just things breaking. It's the actual wear on your floors etc of so many people. Something you may come back to your house and not be able to pinpoint.

Last time I did mind my own business, but have felt guilty ever since for al taamod al dam reyecha.
I'm feeling a little better now.

She rented in the past long before it was a "thing" and hasn't rented out since. It's not like she ever rented out to a succession of people either. Then and this year it's one family the entire bein hzmanim.

.....its just not "only" one family.
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amother




Bellflower
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 10:15 am
I am a bit confused about what the issue is

Is this your neighbor's primary residence or is this an investment property that is rented out to vacationers.

Frankly if I were living next to a home that was rented and had that kind of usage pattern I would be livid because in most cases it would change the nature of the street. There would be excessive noise and cars going back and forth. This would be completely different than having a family live there who lived a *regular* life and had a normal number of guests but not 24/7.

That to me is the real issue as presumably your neighbor is charging a high enough rent plus a deposit for damages so that any damage as well as costs from utilities, wear and tear etc. are covered so she is profiting nicely.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 10:21 am
notshanarishona wrote:
I don’t think you need the contract for how it’s used as much as clear responsibility to pay up if there is damages and maybe limit the amount of people or charge more if it’s more than x amount. It’s pretty self understood that people rent a house to do things their own house is too small for. A moonwalk on the grass is not a big deal, we have one that we put up all the time, doesn’t cause any damage(it was our Covid present when my kids were cooped up forever)


You probably did not have your moonwalk up nonstop to kill your grass
Or have it in your living room....

I'm not sure that's self understood that people rent to pack your house with guests.

I don't live in a part of Lakewood that has a real "renting presence" and when it's done it's for the entire bein hazmanim, not a weekend. For the most part in the past the people my neighbor and others nearby rented to used the house like their vacation home. In other words. They want to be in Lakewood near their sibs and trees (and pool) and they came and just lived there. It felt normal. No nonstop partying.

I have neighbors with all their kids married and over Yom tov it might look something like this. (but honestly, it still doesnt look this nuts - this is seriously jarring to see). one week. Twice a year. Their own house...
Maybe an evening here or there.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 10:43 am
amother Bellflower wrote:
I am a bit confused about what the issue is

Is this your neighbor's primary residence or is this an investment property that is rented out to vacationers.

Frankly if I were living next to a home that was rented and had that kind of usage pattern I would be livid because in most cases it would change the nature of the street. There would be excessive noise and cars going back and forth. This would be completely different than having a family live there who lived a *regular* life and had a normal number of guests but not 24/7.

That to me is the real issue as presumably your neighbor is charging a high enough rent plus a deposit for damages so that any damage as well as costs from utilities, wear and tear etc. are covered so she is profiting nicely.


This is my regular neighbor who only rents out her home when she goes away for bein hazmanim in the summer.

This is in a established Lakewood neighborhood.

I wrote this PSA for those who rent out their houses because I'm not sure she realizes what's going on. When it's one family it's not like this. Ill bet she gave this family a "deal" because its "just grandparents". Instead she should have charged them double or triple or more the going rate to use her house as a clubhouse.

(Not so worried about the noise because the block is pretty noisy itself this time of year....and can't guarantee my own children haven't been in her pool at 11:00pm on occasion 😀.....
Don't love the lack of curb parking in front of my house though. Not used to that. It's usually easy to find in my neighborhood)
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ShishKabob




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 11:17 am
I'm assuming that she has cameras in her house and knows whats happening. Or doesn't she?
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 11:24 am
I have a sibling who has a big house with a pool, and she sometimes rents it out for weekends or a few days. She KNOWS that people will come with extended families, etc... to use the premises. Most people are decent though and have left the premises in used but intact shape. She generally gets a cleaning lady when they leave, and all laundry goes to the laundromat.

I know of one bad experience she had, and she will not rent to that person again (they left a wreck, opened a locked game closet and totally unloaded every game...but worse, poked thru private drawers, they were able to tell....it's understood you don't open all drawers in bedrooms and help yourself to their contents). When that person contacts her, she names an outrageous price, figuring they will refuse (they do).

Many of her renters are repeat renters - people she has had a good experience with in the past.

I don't think neighbors bare any responsibility toward someone renting out their house, especially short-term. Not their problem. You have to do your own research and you take responsibility yourself.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 11:24 am
ShishKabob wrote:
I'm assuming that she has cameras in her house and knows whats happening. Or doesn't she?


This is old time Lakewood. She has a flip phone and no internet in her house.

I doubt there is cameras.
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amother




Honey
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 11:30 am
It seems like you were more bothered by this than your neighbor was.
And what's the issue with a bounce house in the living room? I've done it in my house many times
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ra_mom




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 11:31 am
It's awful. I understand why you're worried for your neighbor.
I'd keep out of it. This is why many people don't rent out their properties.
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watergirl




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 11:32 am
amother OP wrote:
This is old time Lakewood. She has a flip phone and no internet in her house.

I doubt there is cameras.

Honestly I would mention it to her and let her do with the information what she wants. If would be extremely upset if my neighbors saw something concerning going on at my house and no one told me. See something, say something. If I knew a thing was a thing and I was ok with it, I would still be happy my neighbor told me. It means they care enough to keep their eye out for me while I am away.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 12:32 pm
amother Honey wrote:
It seems like you were more bothered by this than your neighbor was.
And what's the issue with a bounce house in the living room? I've done it in my house many times


In fact, short term rentals are illegal in many areas, because they are a nuisance to the neighborhood.
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 15 2022, 12:39 pm
[quote="[url=https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6422820#6422820][b].

I know of one bad experience she had, and she will not rent to that person again (they left a wreck, opened a locked game closet and totally unloaded every game...but worse, poked thru private drawers, they were able to tell....it's understood you don't open all drawers in bedrooms and help yourself to their contents). When that person contacts her, she names an outrageous price, figuring they will refuse (they do).
.[/quote]

I would never rent my home out to someone else for precisely this reason.

Maybe I am more cynical but I imagine that lots of people take the opportunity to explore behind closet doors and drawers only they are more careful about leaving evidence they have been nosy.

It would just give me the creeps to think that a relative stranger was roaming all over my home.

Some homes in vacation areas have what are known as owner closets in which the owner can lock up all of their personal stuff when they rent it out but this is obviously. not practical if one is renting one's entire home on a short term basis. It is for people who keep minimal personal belongings in their second vacation home with the expectation that it will be rented.
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