Your views on lace

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Your views on lace

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Forum -> Fashion and Beauty -> Sheitels & Tichels

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Do you have lace wigs?

Yes, lace top.

31%

[ 71 ]

Yes, lace front.

18%

[ 42 ]

No, just skin top.

49%

[ 110 ]

Total Votes : 223

amother

Acacia

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:09 am

Quote:

She should look clean, dignified, refined etc... outside when in front of other men. But looking beautiful is meant for the home only with her husband.

I dont fully understand the reason why we are wearing wigs.
I fully accept it, but I dont 100% undrstand it.

I wont wear a lace becUse Im embaressed of other men seeing me and thinking it may be my hair.
This is after seeing someone close to me who hadnt really had her wig styled, and honestly looked like she had just come out the shower.

But a woman is not allowed to look beautiful??
For shabbos?
Yomtov?
A wedding?
Making a simcha?

Of course a woman can look beautiful!!

essie14

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:20 am

amother Bergamot wrote:

No this doesnt help. I didnt need help.
I have learned the halachot of kisui rosh in detail. It never says the reason is to lessen her attraction. Women do not have to look dawdy. Women can and should want to make themselves look all put together and good. There is nothing wrong with that.
We cover solely because hair becomes erva once a woman is married. That is it. Nothing else fluffy.

Yup. That's what I learned as well.
Many many people around me, who are all following different rabbanim, wear lace wigs. From very yeshivish to very modern (I live in a very mixed community).
I have never heard from any Rabbi that I follow that wigs can't look natural.
Before lace top wigs, the silk top wigs also looked very natural.
Many people in my community have been blending their hair into their wigs for 20 years.
I know many women who have been wearing kippah falls or hair pieces for 30 years. Much more natural looking than a lace top wig.

DustyDiamonds

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:23 am

amother Acacia wrote:

Nothong wrong with our faces looking older but it can be quite a severe look with a straight middle part and so so flat.
Doesnt necessarily bring out your best features.

I agree that a middle part is severe. On my high school DD and her friends, on women wearing silk tops or wigs without any parts! A side part is virtually universally more flattering! I think one needs incredibly symmetrical features (which few of us have) to look as good in a middle part as a side part.

I wear my lace wig in side parts. Why on earth do you think lace equal middle part?

Last edited by DustyDiamonds on Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

SandyBrown

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:26 am

A pass for me. If you can't 100% tell it’s a wig IMO that's inappropriate for me.

happysmile1

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:31 am

A married woman should look nice and refined outside (she doesn't need to look ugly!)

But she is not supposed to look her most beautiful outside and adornments (like lots of makeup, showy jewlery and also a beautifying wig) are meant for the home.

In the Chassidish world there is an understanding that the less makeup outside the more modest and there are many women that even tuck Jewlery in when they are around men. There is also an understanding that the more wiggy the sheitel is the more modest. (btw I am not Chassidish but I have many Chassidish friends and I am constantly amazed at their sensitivity to tznius!)

Married women are supposed to try their utmost to not wear items and adornments that will cause men to look at them and think that they are very attractive. Since hair is so attracting to men and beautifying it is supposed to be covered with a head covering that ensures that a man does look at her and desire her.

For anyone that wants to see it Torah sourced they could just study Kesubos (72a-b). It says straight out that this is the reason and that if a woman is wearig a head covering that is not modest she could lose her kesubah for this! (It is compared to flirting with young men in the street!)

happysmile1

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:33 am

Oy!

Sorry!

I meant to write:
Since hair is so attracting to men and beautifying it is supposed to be covered with a head covering that ensures that a man NOT does look at her and desire her.

happysmile1

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:34 am

Does NOT look at her and desire her:)

I'm a bit tired:)

amother

Maize

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:36 am

happysmile1 wrote:

Can we do less black and white?
How about a beautiful wig with no makeup and no jewelry?
Or lots of makeup or jewelry with a tichel?

amother

Diamond

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:36 am

I don’t wear a lace front or top because my Rav told me not to. I follow him, even though I don’t understand it.

Wigs have been getting more and more natural looking since they were invented. Before this controversy I’ve never heard that it’s not allowed to look natural. I mean, that’s the whole debate to wear a sheitel to begin with. Why wear something that looks exactly like hair to begin with to cover your hair? Doesn’t seem in the “spirit” of the law. And certainly when wigs just came out people didn’t always know you were wearing one, because it wasn’t something they were used to, it didn’t occur to them. And yet, most poskim hold sheitels are ok.

From what I’ve heard, even the poskim that don’t allow it isn’t because it’s not TZNIUS it’s because another issur of maras ayin. R’Moshe holds there is no maras ayin when it comes to an mitzvas asei.

amother

Acacia

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:57 am

Honestly dont get this.

Iv always been taught a bas yisroel is a princess and meant to look beautiful.
Not ostentatious or showy or provocative, but that will mean different things to different people.

I was always taught to not stick out too much aswel. Thats also a bit of a grey area.

amother

Wheat

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:57 am

If you would have asked me a year or a year and a half ago, I would have said "I would NEVER get a lace top/front wig." But now.... I am more ok with the idea. It doesn't strike me as so crazy. I don't love how I look in my current wigs so maybe that would help me feel more confident and better about my looks.

I know my opinion has nothing to do with halacha but this is honestly where I am coming from- its really comes down to my comfort level. My rav says it's not outright assur but not recommended. So I feel ok on that end. I just don't know if I wanna be "one of those people" just yet.

happysmile1

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 9:00 am

I think that women don't realize how attractive they are to men!

And how attracting nice hair is to men! The Torah knows which is why there is this commandment of hair covering- so married women don't cause men to be attracted to them.

Hair is the best adornment- even more than lots of makeup and Jewlery so even if a woman is wearing a tichel but also wearing makeup and jewlery she will not affect a man the same way that she would with nice hair. Hair transforms the looks of a woman so much which is why there are many women in the secular world wearing wigs now - purely to enchance their looks.

Cloth is not attracting to men at all (unless lots of hair is showing) which is why a cloth covering was never a halachi debate. Only the use of wigs was debated and contraversial with many prominent Rabbanim assuring them.
There is a heter in the litvish world to wear wigs but then the question becomes which type of wigs are really okay to wear.... (especially since so many wigs today are so beautiful looking- usually much nicer than ones own hair!)

amother

Razzmatazz

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 9:05 am

I wear a lace front proudly. My husbands rosh kollel said its fine.

Of course, the length has to be appropriate.
I do not think women should be wearing wigs to their waist, it defeats the whole purpose of tznius. Especially irks me when kollel wives are wearing such long sheitals

amother

Acacia

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 9:07 am

Quote:

I wear a lace front proudly

There is lace front and there is lace front.
Dont know what youre referring to.
I have friends sho have a 'bad' lace and doesnt look v natural.

What "irks" you about "kollel wives" might "irk" them about you.

happysmile1

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 9:11 am

I think its important for women to know that Rav Moshe Feinstein zt"l held that the reason for the hair covering is tznius too.

In his famous teshuvah allowing wigs (Igrot Moshe אבן העזר חלק ב סימן יב), Rav Moshe explicitly states:
דאין זה איסור לאו אלא איסור עשה דעל האשה להיות צנועה ולכסות ראשה.
So Rav Moshe holds like every other posek in the world that hair covering is for Tznius.

Which is why a beautifying wig goes against the entire purpose of the mitzvah of hair covering.

He also gave his psak in 1960! The wigs looked very very different then. We have no way of knowing what he would say to todays wigs which are a very different item...

I have a letter from the chavrusa of Rav Dovid Feinstein zt"l in which it says that according to Rav Dovid his father (Rav Moshe zt"l) would not have allowed the lace front and top wigs- women have to be able to recognize that it is a wig (and honestly many women can't)

amother

Forestgreen

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 9:13 am

My short, simple, non-lace top wig is nicer than my natural hair. I am confident that it is 100% acceptable both according to the laws and the spirit of tznius and hair covering.

I don't have a problem with lace beshita, I think each shaitel needs to be assessed on its own and as it looks on the wearer. I would be uncomfortable with too glamorous a look, whether lace top or not.

Practically though I'd probably avoid lace because I am not gentle with my shaitels.

amother

Forestgreen

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 9:17 am

happysmile1 wrote:

...women have to be able to recognize that it is a wig (and honestly many women can't)

We did a poll on this a while back:
https://www.imamother.com/foru.....53622
Turns out that some women can always tell it's a shaitel, whether lace or not, and some women are never sure, even with a very wiggy shaitel.

amother

Impatiens

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 9:22 am

Can someone clarify what exactly is the difference between a lace top and skin top?

And someone mentioned that lace tops are more comfortable - is that really true? I've heard not to wear them so never looked into it. But I find sheitels so uncomfortable and get headaches from wearing one for more than a couple hours. Would lace top be more comfortable?

farm

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 9:23 am

happysmile1 wrote:

There are many Rabbanim that have come out against lace top/front wigs actually stating that they are halachically forbidden. (I know that there are Poskim that do permit such wigs halachically but it does not mean that they think such wigs are in the spirit of the law)

But there also many Rabbanim that have spoken against natrual, beautifying wigs way before the lace wigs existed.

I think that this is not really about lace or not. It is really about a woman understanding why she is covering her hair and then trying to keep the mitzvah in the correct way. There is always a way to get around keeping a mitzvah in spirit. A woman could wear a skin tight provocative dress that covers everything. She is still failing in modesty and will still provoke men.

It is the same with the wigs- the point of covering the hair is to lessen a married woman's attraction to other men now that she is an eishes ish (and yes there are many Torah sources for this). Hair is so beautifying and this beauty is meant for her husband only. So wearing a beautifying natural wig is in a sense like wearing a skin tight outfit. The hair is physically covered but the beauty of "hair" is still there and not concealed- so it is not at all in the spirit of the mitzvah and the married woman wearing such a wig can still cause attraction from men that see her.

Except it is not against the spirit of the mitzvah because the obligation is for the hair to be covered. No one has to know hair is covered. That is the obligation for a married Jewish woman.

amother

Apple

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 9:28 am

My opinion? Oh please everyone calm down. Lace wigs aren’t that great. They still look like wigs. They aren’t that dif than a great regular sheitel. Especially now that everyone has them. It’s really not a huge deal. I live in the far rock area and almost everyone I know has some sort of lace. It’s totally accepted and normal and the pple who always looked tznius still do. The pple who always looked provocative also still do. Obviously ask ur lor but at least where I live it’s really a non issue

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