4 year old violence in school - help!

amother

Tue, May 27 2008, 9:27 am

My oldest boy just turned 4 this month, and I just got a note requesting that all parents in his playschool meet to discuss the situation at school. Apparently there is a great deal of fighting, violence, and other misbehaving in the school, some of which stems from my son.

Background: My little boy is very strong in character, and very intelligent and articulate. He is in a secular preschool from 9-12:30 for kids ages 2-4, and we are planning to move him up to another school after this summer. By chance, it's all boys, 9 total, and 2 teachers. Because we are in a country (short term) where a.) there are very very few Jews, and b.) there is very little choice that is up to Western standards of safety, this is pretty much it for our options. I feel that my kids need socialization, and that's why I have put him into this group.

I have had a medical problem recently, and got sent out of the country for medical care for a week--where I still am, so this is very recent, after this situation began. Of course, we didn't tell the kids specifics, but they may have picked up on the vibes, and Mommy being gone for a week isn't easy. No other major changes.

Situation: My boy got bitten on the back by another boy a few months ago, and it broke the skin and bruised quite badly, he had to go to the doctor, and because of the healthcare situation here, he needed medication and other treatement. After that, he did not want to go to the school for several days after, but eventually got back into the rhythm. The teachers couldn't explain what happened, so we still don't know why he was bitten.

Shortly after that, my son started avoiding the biter, and apparently, has since become aggressive toward him. Another boy also is being extremely aggressive, and somehow, it has escalated to where all the boys end up fighting almost every day, although those two boys, mine and another, are apparently the ringleaders. (There is some hitting and pushing at home between my 1.5 year old and my 4 year old, but nothing harsh and what I would call normal sibling behavior.)

I have had several meetings with the teachers, and parents, and we have tried to work on the situation. Basically, we settled on time outs for any offender that are enforced strictly. (Previously, if a child got up, it was basically ignored.)

Now we are facing being kicked out of the school, along with the other boy. I don't know what to do about this! I'm concerned because the teachers aren't managing the classroom, which is their job. They have asked me to punish my son for hitting at home, but this is an hour or more after it has happened, and he doesn't seem to relate the two--he just turned 4 and having seemingly unrelated consequences is tough to sell! My opinion that the teachers need to handle the behavior immediately, while in the moment, isn't really acknowledged.

It might be a good idea for my son to take the summer off, but I'm worried about how he'll take it, what we'll do for the summer, and what this means as far as sending his little brother, who will be two this winter, to this playschool next year. I'm also feeling cornered and like my child is being demonized, and trying to walk the fine line between being an objective adult and my child's adoring mommy. Since we are in this country in a visable social position, it makes it even tougher.

Any insight? Advice? How can I tame my little boy, and help him play nicely with others?

bebe3

Thu, May 29 2008, 4:05 pm

a) kids usually get into fights and arguments when there is a lack of structure. If they had a regular schedule and knew what the next part of playtime was it is easier for them to transition. When it is free play most of the day, things tend to get chaotic a lot quicker and are much harder to gain control over. You need to ask to sit in the classroom and supervise how the day goes to get a better idea of the schedule and the social skills the teachers are teaching.
b) With a mother up and leaving for whatever reason for a full week with no explanation to a kid is a cause for lashing out. Kids are extremely perceptive and know when something is not right. When they are told nothing of what is happening in their own home they act out. This behavior could have started because he was extremely confused and only knew how to show his frustration in school with other children.
c) It seems that his teachers are not to knowledgeable in certain areas of teaching. There are some teachers who are capable of running 9 children single handedly. When you sit in on the class you need to watch for a few things along with what I mentioned in the first paragraph.
1. Is there structure? meaning, is there a schedule for the day. Do the kids know for example that after circle time is snack and after snack is playground time etc..
2. when the kids transition from one activity to the next, does the teacher verbalize this next activity before transitioning? Some kids have an extremely hard time adjusting to new activities so suddenly and in response lose control.
3. what is the discipline strategy and how do they enforce good behavior?
These things are extremely important for any type of children's group to run smoothly. If not it might not be such a bad idea for you to pull your son out and put him into a more structured environment.
If everything is normal at this program and there are no other reasons in the classroom to cause your son to behave in this way you can make your own reward system. Make a chart at home and when your son comes home ask him how his day was, if he did not get into any trouble he gets a sticker. (you'll obviously have to ask his teacher how the day was) After he has received 5 stickers for every day of school he can pick a prize. Reward charts are extremely positive and he'll try very hard to work on behaving just to get that sticker.

happymom

Thu, May 29 2008, 8:00 pm

punishing will only make it worse! poor kid. its hard enough for your son that things at home are diff this week, and he got bitten and teachers didnt take care of it properly. my that would make anyone, any age mad!!! I would not trust my kid in that situation. it really doesnt sound right to me. the teachers really dont sound like they know how to dicipline. how tp punish and make a kid feel horrible (which makes them act up) yes, but dicipline, no.

Discipline is different from punishment because it teaches children to learn from their mistakes rather than making them suffer for them. In fact, imposing suffering actually shifts the focus from the lesson that needs to be learned to who is in control. As a result, punishment focuses on the parent being responsible for controlling a child's behavior, rather than the child controlling his/her own behavior, which is the focus of discipline.

the fact that your son has bneen acting that way is a clear sign that he is very bothered and unhappy with what is going on in school. the fact that the teacher said u should punish him at home too would make me not want to send my child to school with that teacehr...!

costanza

Thu, May 29 2008, 8:42 pm

What country are you in? Maybe we are thinking according to North American or Israeli standards and amother is in South Africa or a third world place.

Your son is still very young. Would it be so terrible to keep him home for the summer (and maybe even one more school year) and just spend time with him? Maybe he is more immature and just isn't ready to be away from you yet.

I would also trust my maternal instincts. If you think his behaviour is not where it should be and that it could be something more serious, you have to look into it now. Early intervention, for lack of a better term, is the best way to handle issues with kids his age.

LeahU

Fri, May 30 2008, 7:40 am

I agree with micfri.
If the reason to send away your son to the group is for social reasons and that 'social' aspect is not so very wonderful-I wouldn't suggest attempting to fit your child into a system that for whatever reason isn't working for him. Lack of structure and over-structure are both equal villains-and if you are concerned with too much or too little of either-you can set one at home too and give him the advantage of Mommy and me time. Needing playmates does not negate the necessity of Mother and it can be worked out without the need of an institution. See if he can play with a child/chidren after school or camp-arrange play-dates. If your concern, as well, is your health and ability to entertain your son and be active for the most part of the day with him-it might be a good idea to hire a mothers helper-or if anything-get together with a few parents and hire someone that works. Hatzlocha Rabbah.

amother

Fri, May 30 2008, 8:49 am

OP here:

We are in a third world country. Literally. This is the best, and pretty much only school available, and all the children are international students, so it's got the best supervision, cleanliness standards, etc. So this is really it for choice. (Well, there is a Xtian school, but that's a definite no!)

The problem with taking my son out for the summer is that he feels it's a punishment. He loves the school, and actually doesn't have much problem with anything there. He desperately misses his friends when we take a day off, and when I mentioned that maybe we would find a different place, he was heartbroken! The only reason he is going is for social reasons, and he has found some good friends there.

After meeting today, I found out that the hitting is more like pushing and roughhousing, with some hitting thrown in, usually after the other behavior gets out of hand. Although it sometimes escalates, most accidents seem to be more like two boys were kicking a ball and it knocked one over. So, there is some hitting, but I'm not sure it's as violent as first described. I'm going to observe on Monday, and we'll see.

However, my little one is very strong willed, and he won't stand for time out from the teacher, who says she doesn't want him to hate the preschool and so she just lets him and the other children get up from time out. That's the main problem we are focusing on now. There needs to be a reason not to hit, and the kids are too young to have the internal controls so it should be external reinforcements.

Surprisingly, we didn't even discuss a positive reward option, which actually is pretty silly since I am a psychologist by training...oy, with your own kids, it's harder to see clearly! We have a sticker chart for home behavior, but I'll propose one for school too. Thanks for the idea. Smile

There is some structure to the school, but less than most in the US. It basic schedule is free time for arrival, snack, music/art/dance depending on the day, outside play, then lunch, then pick up time. So some structure, but not overly structured. That would probably be my choice if I had one, just based on my son's temperment.

Thanks for the advice and discussion, and please feel free to add more! Smile

amother

Fri, Jun 13 2008, 6:29 am

OP: just an update for anyone who is wondering, and a THANK YOU for the feedback and suggestions.

The situation is much better, and pretty much resolved. (After rereading my first post, and seeing how critical it felt at the time, it will also remind me that "this, too, shall pass." Smile

)

The parents decided to really crack down on violence by enforcing time outs. Teachers were previously letting kids get up if they cried, so you can guess what that meant--time out? No problem!

Parents discussed the issue of the teachers wanted to be "friends" vs. being the adults and sometimes making unpopular decisions or requests. This is something fundamental in most parts of the world, but with the situation here, plus foreign children and some language barrier issues, it got a little confusing for them. But they seem to have adjusted to this pretty well.

I stayed the whole day one day, and another mother stayed another day, and we really enforced time out and instructed kids and teachers as needed. Those two days were sometimes rough as the kids were crying to get out of time out, but after that, they were pretty much done with all the fuss. Now it's a few weeks later, and if they get put into timeout, there's a clock they can watch and they sit quietly with very few exceptions.

We're also starting a sticker chart for no time-outs and good behaviors, and it seems to be working well. May need a few adjustments, but the idea came from here, so I wanted to say thanks!