How much are you paying for your apartment in EY for Succos?

amother

Amber

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 2:20 pm

amother Currant wrote:

I live in israel. Rent has skyrocketed just like everywhere else. If your rent for a 2 bedroom apartment is $2500, then charging double that for peak season is not crazy.

In order to rent out my 3 bedroom apartment with a sukkah, we empty all the closets/fridge/ freezers, buy an extra bed if the person needs, hire someone to clean,
AND build the sukkah. How much would it cost to pay someone to build your sukkah anywhere - so you can add that to the cost.

Unless they have a really beautiful apartment, most people I know are just charging rent+utilities+cleaning fee+sukka fee + around $1,000 so its worth the effort.

there are lots of different kind of rentals and renters out there.

And I think that 8500 for 2 bedrooms is outrageous but then again 12 years ago we paid 2800 for 1 bedroom in a less popular area and it was a teeny tiny apartment that had a porch for a sukka that could literally hold two chairs but no table.

And I know for a fact that 8500 for two bedrooms in a better area today is practically going rate. It's outrageous and insane but those are the prices.

Cleaning, btw, for all the chutznikiyot here, is between 50-80 NIS PER HOUR. Not including transportation or cleaning supplies.

amother

Currant

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 2:34 pm

amother Amber wrote:

I live in a pretty high demand area and at this point you can find a nice two bedroom for 2500, so it depend where you look, if your using an agent. I am charging less than 8500 for 3 bedrooms, big kitchen and sukkah porch that seats 12+

amother

Amber

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 2:35 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Quote:

The people you are renting from cannot afford even the vacation you are taking, even at the low price you've found. They can't. You have more privilege than them. The entire community of tourists from abroad coming in for the chagim are more privileged, MUCH more privileged, than the people they are renting from.

Oh, so because we are considered priveleged, they have free reign to charge a flipping fortune?

Knocking down the prices by THOUSANDS is VERY revealing. If you fail to see this then you are simply living in denial.

If it's a flipping fortune then don't pay it.

The people who still need the money desperately will drop their prices by a few thousand.

I fail to see how you can know what is needed to cover their expenses, or know how much they are earning or not earning in profits, without looking at their bank accounts.

You're assumption that it is very revealing is also an assumption.

amother

Amber

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 2:38 pm

amother Currant wrote:

Dollars or shekels?

I was talking shekels. You can find a good long-term apartment for 2500 NIS per month in good areas? I mean, I think in Ramat Shlomo that works.

You're charging less than 8500 NIS for long-term or short term, and where?

(We pay less than 8500 NIS for long-term, 3 bedrooms, decent kitchen, place to build sukkah. Not the areas these people are looking in though. But recently I have discovered that larger apartments go for less per square meter than smaller ones. Like newlyweds are having trouble finding apartments for a decent price but for families with several children who need 2-5 bedrooms and more space it is easier to find affordable. I think because newlyweds all like to live near parents in certain areas but once you have kids and settle you settle in various other areas as well so the prices are more normal.)

amother

Crystal

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 2:46 pm

I really can't believe the way that some frum woman don't fargin an Israeli family to make some money.
I live in eretz Yisrael, far from family. Every day is a struggle. We are drowning in debt, even though we both work.
We live in a tiny apartment, while hearing from my (non-working, obviously) sisters in NY about their huge houses. We have to shlep on several planes , never mind the cost every time we want to see our families.
I'm not complaining. I thank hashem all the time for the privilege of living here.
I haven't spent yom tov with family in forever, and I was hoping to be able to afford it this year, since we would rent out our apartment.
I was counting on the extra money, after paying for tickets, to pay for the yom tov basics, like building a Sukkah, 4 minim, basic clothes, shoes for the kids, maybe actually cover a debt or 2 , so I don't have to feel uncomfortable from half of my neighbors?
You are HAPPY? that prices are dropping? I didn't force anyone's to pay that price, but I sure could've used it!
Now, if I find the right tenant iyh, I'll just about cover our tickets, not complaining, I know lots of people aren't lucky enough to have that option.
Which leaves me stressing out about my endless shopping lists, and yes, our even more endless debts.
The way some people on here are literally gloating, makes me Sad

amother

Pearl

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:08 pm

amother Amber wrote:

You are also missing the point. As a chutznik you have no idea what the scale of their expenses is, so claiming that they are exploiting, greedy, making 2000% profit is simply your unfair assumption and quite likely (almost certainly) untrue.

I'm not denying that prices are likely SOMEWHAT above what they need to be. But that is fair market. And people are learning to value their time and energy - something that in the past not everyone did. Women's work was seen as free and women's time as expendable. Now women are realizing that they do not have to martyr themselves for every penny, that their time is worth something, their effort is worth something, that they should only invest in something that will give them a fair profit, a fair return on their investment of time and energy - energy that could have been spent on their families, for instance.

You don't know their rental costs, their water and electricity costs, the cost of renting a different place. You're not looking at their bank accounts. You're making assumptions. Lots of them.

Yes it could be that some people are going to make a profit. Some will miscalculate or from the pressure of the last minute forget to take some factors into consideration and end up with a loss. Some will do the math and say it is worth it anyways and then find themselves so overwhelmed and exhausted that they regret dropping the price because it simply isn't worth the time and energy anymore. And that is likely to be a big group, because you often *think* that you'll be fine and you can handle it and then realize that you're not really fine and you can't really handle it and you were only doing it because it brought in enough money for it to be worth it, and now it's not bringing in that sum and you are angry and resentful and feel very used.

Don't tell me wake up and smell the coffee. You wake up and realize that calling these people exploitive and greedy and saying that this is fishy and they are just inflating to take advantage, is an unfair blanket assumption that you have no right to make.

Just for kicks btw I asked my husband about this and what if, and he without me telling him costs said it would have to be a nice 50k shekel for him to even think it would be worth the hassle, time, effort, etc. to leave for three weeks. Right now that's in dollars around $15k. I don't know where that falls on your price scale - low, high, in-between, fair, unfair, whatever...but that's what it would have to be to cover all expenses and pay us for our time and effort and the risks involved and moving our kids out of the house for so long and finding where to store our stuff (for pay obviously). He doesn't know this market, knew somewhat that it exists but doesn't know the scale or any details, he's oblivious. But it's obvious enough to him that the hassle is great enough that only 50K would be worth it. So some people sell themselves cheap, that doesn't mean others are exploiting.

Very strange to suggest that some people sell themselves cheap. This is an insult on their intelligence.
EVERYONE knows what it entails (all the hard work involved such as cleaning, scrubbing, putting stuff into storage etc) to rent out their apartment. They have been doing this for YEARS. Why do you think you need to be devil's advocate and pretend they are going to just about break it even, or not want to do it again etc?
Can't you see, that if so many are dropping the price by THOUSANDS, THAT THEY STILL WILL BE MAKING A DECENT PROFIT? They won't be making the extra thousands that is way above normal , that's all. But a nice profit they will still be earning.
Because otherwise they would be removing their listing very very fast.
Oh, so many people are making poor judgement, you want to convince me?
You are simply trying to protect and stick up for those who seek to exploit, (whom they perceive as American millionaires , who can anyway afford to pay any price they will be charged)

I bet it's some of these same people (charging the earth) that also beg for discounts at Israeli stores and supermarkets.

amother

Wandflower

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:13 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

You are completely missing the point.
When prices were not as crazy, they were still within the realms of more normal, taking into consideration ALL relevant factors such as their own rental costs , water, energy and cost of living and ALL the work involved to rent out their place and or rent a different place ;if they couldn't move in with family.)

What's happening now is way beyond ALL inflation and other relevant factors.

I thought they can only rent out at sky high prices to cover all their costs?
Hmmmm, don't you realise that this seems very fishy if they can suddenly afford to drop not by a few hundred but by THOUSANDS?
Are you trying to tell me that you really believe people are so dumb that they are going to go to such great lengths only to make a loss?
Do you think these people are that dumb that they don't know the maths?

Wake up and smell the coffee.

I don't understand what your argument is. Do you and your husband work for minimum wage? If not aren't your exploiting your employer? Do the supermarkets only charge cost prices to all the people who want to buy food? Is that exploiting people?

This is a business and in business people are in it to make a profit. Profit means that the money that they make on top of the cost. I have a 5 bedroom place in the center of Jerusalem. My costs are about $8,000 (depending how much damage I have once the renters leave). I rent it out for a little more than double that amount. Someone must think it's worth it because we closed on it in May. There have been years that I couldn't get that amount and I dropped the price a little because it was still worth it to me. There were other years that I didn't get that amount and I didn't drop it further because it wasn't worth it to go through all that hassle and only make a couple of thousand dollars.

The owner is entitled to ask what they want. The potential renter is entitled to offer a different amount and the owner can decide to accept or not. There is no exploiting or manipulation happening here. That's how real estate works

Last edited by amother on Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Pearl

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:13 pm

amother Crystal wrote:

Nice to know that chutzniks who want to rent an apartment, have to pay all expenses for someone else to travel home for the chag , plus some debt too.
Nice to know that chutzniks are viewed as the bankers to bankroll all this.

I strongly hear the attitude of:
"Its worthwhile for me to rent out my apartment if I get all my travel expenses plus more, paid for by some alleged American millionaires"
If this not called entitlement and greed, then what is???

amother

Amber

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:15 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Did you read the post above yours? She will barely cover the tickets she already bought. She won't have enough to buy new clothes for the chag or even arba minim, that will all go on credit, meaning she'll be in debt because of it. And she considers herself one of the lucky ones. Meaning there are lots of people around here who are renting their apartments and can't just remove their listings because they've already put out money for alternative arrangements, and they are dropping their prices by the thousands in hopes of covering what they've already paid, but understanding that they won't end up with any profit, just barely avoiding debt if possible.

You keep saying that I'm underestimating their intelligence but I'm not. You don't seem to understand that Elul is literally last minute and anyone who was banking on a profit and knew that there would be last-minute demand has already made arrangements and paid for them, and now has to keep that money from completely going down the drain, they need to make sure they don't get into debt.

I really don't understand what you're not understanding here. You yourself made arrangements last minute and you're renting out your place and it helps cover the cost of your trip. What if the market price dropped and you could only rent it out for half what you agreed to? You've already paid your tickets and for an apartment, what now? Of course you still rent it out at the lower price, better some debts covered than none, right? Same thing here.

Again, you have no right to claim these people are exploiting. Besides for the fact that your gross privilege is showing through, it's impossible to exploit someone who doesn't have to be there. Anyone who is choosing to come is also choosing which apartment, there is no exploitation, you are not a trapped market, you can go where you please and you DO.

amother

Pearl

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:18 pm

amother Wandflower wrote:

This how a greedy mind operates
Anything above expensive is called greedy and exploitation. You are taking advantage of a situation to charge the earth in order to earn massive amounts
There are no excuses to be given for bad behaviour and greed. It's a mindset not business. Business has to be conducted fair and within reason.

amother

Amber

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:22 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Chutzniks who want to rent an apartment do need to pay the expenses for the person they are renting from to have alternative accommodations.

It has to be worth it for the Israeli family to leave their home and move somewhere else and clean and scrub and prepare and fix it up to your standards. Yes.

If you don't want that feel free to rent an Airbnb or a hotel. Please. Then you won't be paying for the expenses of the Israeli family who needs to leave their home for three weeks, you'll just be paying the salaries of the hotel's employees and cleaning crew and for the catering and the high property tax and the fancy carpets and also the cost of whatever you damage or stain or take with you (steal) when you leave.

Yes people who live in a home have a right to say "It's only worth it for me to rent out my apartment if I get the expense of renting it out covered plus the expenses I incur when I leave that apartment."

It's their right to say, "I want to see my family, if I rent out my apartment I can cover that cost with the amount the renters will pay me" or even "It's only worth it to rent out my apartment if it allows me to see my family."

No one OWES you their apartment, especially not at a cost that isn't worth it for them. They know you want to stay in their area so they offer it to you and you both benefit - they get to see their family and you get to stay in their place in Jerusalem. They need the money and you need the apartment. Fair is fair. If the amount of money isn't enough then you are getting the apartment that you need for your vacation but they are not getting the money that they need. That's not fair. If we switch to want, it's still not fair: you get the place you want but they don't get the money they want. Not fair.

amother

Pearl

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:26 pm

amother Amber wrote:

Those who choose to live in E.Y don't need to be there either. Yes, They have the special privilege of living there. However, they made the decision to live there despite knowing their financial situation will be a lot worse than their siblings back home.

That's why I have to pay ALL their travel expenses plus more, when they want to go back home for the chagim?? This smacks of an attitude.
This is utterly ludicrous and a horrible expectation.
An entitlement on a whole new level.

amother

Amber

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:27 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Expensive is relative.

500 NIS for a chair is expensive. For a couch that's a ripoff.
50 NIS for a carton of milk is outrageous. For two kilo of meat it's an amazing deal.
5000 NIS for a one-bedroom apartment (long-term) is expensive. For a four-room apartment (long-term) it's cheap.

You claim something is expensive when maybe it's not that expensive, just out of your budget. Covering costs plus a bit of profit is not greed, exploitation, or bad behavior. It's business. Charging what you are worth is business. Charging what your apartment is worth is business.

What's bad behavior is what you are doing here. There's no excuse for it. No one owes you their apartment, they only offer it if it's going to be worth it for them (whatever that means to them). And you don't get to decide what is worth it and how a last-minute steep price drop will affect their profits.

amother

Pearl

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:28 pm

amother Amber wrote:

This is communism talk.

amother

Wandflower

Wed, Sep 14 2022, 3:32 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

No. You are right you don't need to pay someone else's travel costs. You are paying for an apartment.
They don't need to give you their home, they are willing to rent it if it's worth it to them.

The fact that you feel entitled to get something for less than the market value screams entitlement and exploitation.