Class doesn't stop talking !!

amother

Rainbow

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 12:02 am

Sewsew_mom wrote:

When I was in 10th grade my math teacher used to stand by the door and wait until everyone stood up for her. She was young and even if I recall still single at the time.
I wasn't a disruptive or bad kid at all but I felt forced standing up for her when she had no reason to be respected (I was young obviously) so I didn't stand up. I got sent to the principle and till this day I think that is the most absurd thing to do in a class. Girls won't respect you more when you demand respect.
Please don't use these tactics in a class you already have a hard time with, just makes you look like a fool who has lost control.
(luckily my principle was seemingly normal and I remember her saying I was a hundred percent right and I'm pretty sure she spoke to the teacher after-but it's many many years so details aren't clear anymore)

I agree with this.

High school kids are not going to respect you because you demand it. They’ll just make you wait at the door forever while you shift from one foot to the other waiting for them to settle down.

I’d suggest walking in straight away and telling them that class is starting. A student who isn’t settling down is marked late. I agree with posters about not threatening, just doing it very matter of factly. Your students should get the message that you’re here to teach, and they cannot disturb. Same with sending a student out. You’re disturbing the class then you don’t belong here. If you feel confident, you can tell the kid you’re sending out that she’s more than welcome to return when she’s ready.

Also, I personally don’t mind when students do their own thing as long as they’re not disrupting and they know their work. Sometimes a kid truly has a hard day, or a hard time with your particular subject. It’s just a short session, it’s ok if not everyone is participating.
Of course, my goal is not to put them to sleep, but to make them want to listen and cooperate. But if the majority of the class is paying attention and a few girls or doodling, it’s perfectly fine.

amother

Seablue

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 8:47 am

mom39 wrote:

I teach HS math and the best thing for me is that there is a regent. In a non regent course the girls are less attentive since they feel there is less accountability at the end.

They definitely need consequences for actions. If they don't care if you take points off, have them sit detention. Or an extra assignment (doesn't have to be math. Could be an essay about class decorum). You have to give them something that they don't like - make sure your principal is in your corner and speak to the parents and make sure they are on board with you.

If girls in my class are talking, sometimes I'll just say -"you finish. I was taught not to speak when someone else is speaking so let me know when I can start". They get quiet right away.

Above all, do not try to act "cutesy" or be their friend. In the beginning you have to show who is the boss and you can let go in a few weeks. If you try to be their friend they will jump all over you and then it's extremely hard to go back. We all know which type of teachers we caused trouble by in class.

Your last paragraph and second to last are contradictory. Telling a student, you finish... is trying to be cutesy because everyone knows you don't really mean that. Usually a strong look is enough but if you need to comment on any misbehavior, be direct and succinct. "No talking" or "I need silence" or even "You're disturbing"

amother

Daisy

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 10:37 am

Can you have the girl that's talking come up to the front of the room to write examples for you on the board? Or assist you with any other math related job?
Thinking back to when I was in high school, I think majority of the class would have tried to avoid such a consequence.
Advantage is, all your students are still in the room and their attention is likely on their classmate up front.
Also rewarding the class with something that is meaningful to them, such as dismissing five minutes early if the work was done, or dismissing as soon as the work is done, or one free period a month might work wonders.

Hatzlacha, this is not easy!

amother

Linen

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 12:58 pm

I like to give the talkers jobs when I can (write on the board, get photocopies, hand out papers, bring the computer cart...). It's not always chutzpah, personally I have a lot of students with serious learning disabilities mixed in a regular class, and sometimes that means they are very impulsive and they can't totally control that.
I like to start class with a warmup. I write a task on the board and they start working as soon as they come in. I find that helps with classroom management because they settle down right away at the beginning and I don't have to say a word. I take attendance while they do the warmup so they don't get antsy during attendance.
I also give quizzes almost every week. When you call something a quiz, even if it's the same as a worksheet they take it seriously. Set them up for success by giving quizzes that are 75% easy, and they will start to gain confidence and then be motivated to work.
If the talking is egregious I start sending students out. It's not fair to the ones who do want to learn. I also walk around the room a lot and strategically stand next to the talkers in action...and they get the point. I try really hard not to talk while the students are talking, but it isn't always possible. Some mantras I repeat a lot "we don't talk while someone else is talking" "Sara, you are not being respectful to Shira right now" "it's not appropriate to yell across the room" etc.
I feel your pain. I have a particularly difficult 11th grade this year as well (I taught two last year and did not have the same problem). It can be very demoralising. Sometimes the dynamics are just off and all you can do is try your best.

amother

Thu, Sep 22 2022, 7:19 am

So mon & Tues went a little better.the principal stood in the class for five min on Monday and that settled them. But yesterday was horrible again. I realized that the 2-3 girls who were out the other days may have made the difference.....
Most girls don't mean to be disrespectful, they just can't shut their mouths. Yesterday when I had enough I told them (a teaching coach suggested this): " you Can either learn with me teaching you, or you teach yourself and I answer questions.since you aren't letting me teach you, please read page X and do examples 1&2 and I will collect them"

But I walk out of that room with such a bad feeling.

amother

Wed, Oct 19 2022, 10:29 pm

Back to work tomorrow after a long break and I am dreading this particular class.
Some girls want to learn and want to move faster, some girls want to learn but are weak students... And then there are a bunch of girls who are in school for the social aspect... Literally about a Thurs of my class probably isn't even getting their high school diploma.
My teaching coach , when I spoke to her in the summer, well before we knew I was having a hard class, recommended making it more interesting by doing once a week special activities if work was completed. If not done, they go to principal to complete while test of class has the activity. I want to try this but I am afraid enforcing it is hard... To keep track of 20+ girls that they are writing down answers, etc...
And the talking and talking....and talking... I am just hoping they have pity on me... At that age post rosh Hashana you'd think they had charata but it didn't seem so... Crying

amother

Apple

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 9:19 am

I had a math teacher (not NY so no regents) who got her class quiet. We never made a sound. She just took off points for each rule violation (late, no homework, talking). And yes, a girl started her test with a 70 once. We all learned immediately. We didnt think it wasnt fair or honest- we were told outright these were the rules. She enforced them equally. No control issues ever and she did it with her 12th grade class too.
If a girl is failing and no one cares- that says a lot about the school, the girl and her family.
The same girls who couldnt keep quiet in other classes behaved perfectly in math...

Or we had a teacher who said "I'll wait Rivka" if Rivka started talking. But not nearly as effective as math teacher.

amother

Mon, Oct 31 2022, 11:27 pm

Still having trouble with them. This is so hard! A lot of the talking is on topic- so I dont mind if it is calling out instead of raising hands.... But there is too much shmoozing with their friends.
I have sent girls out.
I asked the principal to speak to another girl. She asks, " is she the worst offender?" I say no! Should I send you 5 girls???
Today I was so frustrated, I packed my bag and walked out of class. I was gonna go to office but saw someone in hallway and was talking and then a student came out and said the girls are ready to learn.... So I went back.
Walking out worked but it's not a long term solution.
Help!!!!

effess

Tue, Nov 01 2022, 12:19 am

I’m sorry it’s so hard.
I was a terrible student. You’re making me feel like I should go and apologize for the sins of my youth (30+ years ago)
My suggestion may take more prep, but perhaps you can give them the material to learn in class with a partner, or find your lesson on video (there are millions of educational videos teaching every subject) as kids would do if they’re homeschooled and then they need to do the work.
You hardly need to speak.
Even the instructions will be typed out and written on the top page of their work.

Give out mike n Nikes to well behaved girls, even high schoolers like candy.

Is this talking the general culture in the school?
Is there a sense of discipline as a whole?

amother

Sunflower

Tue, Nov 01 2022, 12:49 am

effess wrote:

high schoolers love candy, but not as a bribe to be quiet.
I remember wanting to be treated as an adult when I was in 11th grade; I didn't respect the teachers that treated us like kids.

imasinger

Tue, Nov 01 2022, 7:09 am

amother OP wrote:

The bolded might be something to change.

Once you allow calling out, you're inviting the less disciplined girls to engage in general conversation. It's just human nature. Don't go there.

It's okay to start a next class saying, "I'm changing my policy, because the class was getting out of control. From now on, I'm going to be strict with people talking one at a time. Please raise your hands, and don't speak until I call on you."

Then, be super strict with YOURSELF. Make sure that you don't respond to anyone without a raised hand. Remind them periodically as well. If a girl calls out more than twice (some would say less), consider saying, "this is the third time I'm reminding you -- you're being disrespectful to everyone else here, if it happens again, I'll need you to leave the room and (whatever the "and" policy is in your school). Don't wait until chaos before sending them out, because then, how do you pick just one, right? Grab the first one to put a toe out of line, and show the class you mean business.

Signed,
A veteran teacher of decades who still sometimes struggles with classroom management

amother

Geranium

Tue, Nov 01 2022, 8:34 am

amother OP wrote:

A bit late in the game, but I remember how one teacher handled this for my class. We were quite a disruptive class and she tried all the nice ways before taking the tough route. But her tough route worked. One day she just walked into class and announced that she will no longer talk over any kid. Any time there's an uncalled for interruption, she will pause and wait for the talking to finish however long it takes - even if it takes up the entire class time. However, she's here to cover material today from section x to y, and whatever she doesn't get through in class will be assigned as self-learning for homework, with a quiz on the following day for that material.

She followed through, and at the start of every class she noted on the board what material she expects to cover in class today and at the end of the day assigned the rest as homework (if it wasn't covered due to interruptions).

It really worked - and fast. No kid wanted that extra homework and extra quizzes.

amother

Fern

Tue, Nov 01 2022, 8:45 am

What worked for me if having students be responsible for teaching a mini lesson. This is a graded project

Another way to start the class quiet is to stand at the door and as soon as they come in hand them a min quiz, 5 examples. And make the grade count
Then you could go around and if they speak make a mark on their paper to take off points.
I don’t like this route but sometimes I do use it

I don’t know if this would help, but giving out dum-dum pops so that their mouths are full
????
One professor in university did this and for the most part it was quiet

amother

Fern

Tue, Nov 01 2022, 8:46 am

amother

Rainbow

Tue, Nov 01 2022, 9:16 am

effess wrote:

I’m sorry it’s so hard.
I was a terrible student. You’re making me feel like I should go and apologize for the sins of my youth (30+ years ago)
[b]My suggestion may take more prep, but perhaps you can give them the material to learn in class with a partner, or find your lesson on video (there are millions of educational videos teaching every subject) as kids would do if they’re homeschooled and then they need to do the work.
You hardly need to speak.
Even the instructions will be typed out and written on the top page of their work.[/b

I like this suggestion. I think it might work for a class like this. Walk in, hand them assignments, and tell them it’s due at the end of class. If they have any questions tell them all the instructions are on the board, assignment, are in the book. If they’re not done at the end of class they need to complete it at home.

Good luck!!

amother

Wheat

Tue, Nov 01 2022, 9:24 am

11th grade teacher here...its hard and tough! Last week 2 girs were engrossed in a conversation, I stopped talking they didn't even realize! They were so foolish because everyone starred at them! Rest of the day everyone made sure to be quiet...

I also told a girl "come up and let's hear what was so important, at least have the entire class hear the important information"

Maybe its not ideal...but by making them feel like 2 cents but this works...I can't come home with a hoarse voice and a huge headache everyday

Yes I also take off points..some care, some dont....

Oh and lastly...I have this policy,I talk for 10 minutes and allow them to smooze for 5...after that I talk again for 10 break for 5....not ideal for all subjects but for me it works...

amother

Khaki

Tue, Nov 01 2022, 9:45 am

Omg so many memories
Horrible memories
I am more than 12 years post graduation but why is it all still the same?
I understand that it’s not the teachers fault, but you’re working in a broken system, you should at least be aware of that.
Most of us as adults would never be able to sit quietly through speeches for 6-7 hours a day with our every move being controlled.
It’s hard to be a high school student. And that’s without taking into account that a good amount of kids are dealing with baggage you’re unaware of.
It’s hard to learn when you’re forced to. It’s even harder to learn when you’re fighting to survive. And I promise you many of your students are, for various reasons.
They didn’t choose to sit in your classroom.
I don’t have a solution to this.
My dream is to start an awareness course for teachers. Of how teenage brains work and the affect of stress and trauma on learning.

amother

Nasturtium

Tue, Nov 01 2022, 9:49 am

amother Geranium wrote:

I like this idea. Just make sure that if the students and/or parent kvetch about how “it’s so unfair to give them so much work!” (bc the girls have to self-teach and complete work at home) - that the principal will back you. I tried something similar to this and if the principal kowtows to the parents/students, that just further undermines the teacher’s authority.