Curious what's it like to live in other countries!

youngmother6

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 12:34 pm

amother Seafoam wrote:

I live in a beautiful area in Israel. Large city. Great transportation. (even without a car). We have a 5 bedroom apartment. Really blessed with great neighbors. We have an amazing view. Most people here have a nice sized porch/patio so we all make our Succah's right off our living room. Lot's of Shopping. Pretty good prices. Lot's of schools, after school activities for kids. Loads of Shiurim for Men and Women on all Levels of their learning.

Where in Israel do you live?

SG18

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 12:58 pm

amother DarkRed wrote:

Omg this post makes me long for Israel!! Sad

I live in boro park. I've lived in many cities and countries. I like the walkable part of boro park, but I also miss the driving lifestyle of LA as funny as that sounds. Like I love walking to the store here and it never gets old that kids walk themselves places, growing up in LA I never had that. I think if I get a car here I'll fill that void - like it's nice to have your own private space you know? Like when you take an Uber or walk you are never just by yourself..

I love the community feel of boro park. It reminds me of living in Israel.

It's really special to live in such a vibrant Jewish community.

For reference and interests sake OP I lived in Tokyo, Japan for some time. It was fascinating to me since it was my first experience in Asia at all. I also visited other areas of Japan and went to South Korea.

What struck me there was how completely 180 degrees different it was. Not like how Europe and Israel are different than the US, like completely different. Also I felt self conscious sometimes looking too touristy, taking pics everywhere, asking questions in English (obviously I don't speak Japanese) and then when I would see foreigners who love Japanese culture and tried to fit in (dyed their hair black, spoke the language, dressed like them) but were obviously still not truly Japanese, it clicked in my head -like why try to hide/deny who you are? Celebrate it! Everyone can see you anyways, you are not fooling anyone! (It's a common thing it's called japanophile or something where foreigners become obsessed with Japanese culture and try to become Japanese which is obviously impossible). So that was a big lightbulb moment for me and I enjoyed my experience much more after that. In general it's a safe beautiful place to visit in my opinion, just several touristy places are avodah Zara so you have to be careful which sites you visit.

Also the culture in japan is very polite so they do try not to stare, etc. South Korea I did not enjoy, I found it unsafe (I was in Seoul) even though I didn't travel alone I felt very vulnerable and got injured twice - I felt like the value on life there was not very high, like in the street I got injured twice BH I was ok. It's a great cheap place to get high prescription lenses for glasses/glasses tho, like they do it in the street, and I got some! They have thinner lenses than in the US Smile

I did go to a cultural performance there which was nice (like dance/music) and went to an all women's spa (that's popular there) which was interesting lol.

Good shabbos!

What was unsafe about South Korea? Was there Kosher food?
I was thinking of going for a short visit (with my husband and two little kids), do you think it's a bad idea?

amother

Chocolate

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 2:11 pm

amother Cerulean wrote:

I live in South Africa, life is very different here. Property is much cheaper, most people have large houses with big gardens and pools. Most people have full time cleaning help because labor is very cheap. There are wealthy people here but they are the minority and there are plenty of families that struggle .
Life in general is much more chilled, many people are self employed and people in general aren't workaholics.
The greatest plus for us is belonging to a warm community that is built on Chessed, we are part of a small community where everyone truly looks at for each other. But the general Johannesburg Jewish community is exceptional in its Chessed looking after the aged, the poor, and so much more.

Agree…. I grew up in USA and live here now. It’s a VERY different culture.
It’s an incredible Jewish community. Also, I personally find it a lot less megushemdik. People don’t dress their kids in fancy expensive outfits, spending $80 on a pair of kids shabbos shoes is literally unheard of in my community. Jewelery and clothing is much more low key. I don’t find it this rat race Of keeping up with the joneses or Cohens. Or whatever.

It’s just more simple.

Also, I love how there’s so much mixing between communities. Frum, not Frum, MO, chabad. Ohr Sameach, Aish, more chareidi communities.

It’s amazing.

amother

Daphne

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 2:25 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Which do you prefer?
Isn't housing cheaper? Unless you're in London?

Both have their benefits. No place is perfect.

I live in London so no it’s not cheaper. Housing is unaffordable. I pay over $3k a month for a small 3.5 bedroom.
My washer and dryer are in the kitchen.
I do not have a toilet in the main floor.
The master bedroom is in the loft.
There are no closets only cupboards. I am “lucky” to have a coat closet under my steps.
Even though it’s3 floors the whole house is maybe 1400 square feet.

Because it’s a city you need to pay for parking almost everywhere. Parking is a nightmare. Driving is very difficult and not just because it’s on the other side of the road. Roads are very narrow, a 2 way street can often be more narrow than a typical US one way. You need to get used to roundabouts ect.

Life is more laid back. People are not as pressured to make money. There is lots of government assistance. Free healthcare (though can be a pain to navigate). Low tuition. Very little peer pressure. No one will blink twice at what your kids wear. (Again, I’m from in town, so I’m used to lots of pressure.) Grocery shopping is cheaper but wages are much much lower. People don’t spend a lot of money eating out ect.

Kids have off from school very often. Half term, 2 weeks winters, 2 weeks spring etc. then not off till august. Most go away in august. Some go away for every little break.

Most mothers work from home part time or not at all. It’s more traditional setup where fathers work and mothers do the woman’s jobs.

There are no School buses, we do carpool called “rota”.

Cleaning help is cheap (for me at least) due to the vast amount of immigrants. About £10-12/hr (which is 12-15)

We have a big grocery store with lots of America Israeli French and English products. Much smaller than what I’m used to but I got used to it and bh I have everything I need! There are plenty of restaurants. It’s a small close knit community (though the biggest in Europe) and everyone knows each other and takes care of each other.

The mentality is a bit more old fashioned (ie when it comes to abuse, mental health ect) but bh people are starting to wake up and there are organizations to help the community that deal with the issues.

What else?

amother

Daphne

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 2:53 pm

Adding on..

Kids school all have uniforms even the boys.

Secular education is under government and on a very high standard though unfortunately I can’t say the same for the Hebrew studies. When boys go to Yeshiva they are often behind because of it. Even the very frum boy high schools (grammar school- not chasidish though they are usually not under the government) have a very high standard of English education.

There are lots of extra curricular after school (tennis, football, swimming, art, chess, drama, baking, computers, dance ect) that people send to.

amother

Azure

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 3:27 pm

amother Daphne wrote:

Are you from GG/Hendon?

amother

Azure

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 3:39 pm

I’m from Stamford Hill, London. People came to live here around the time of WW2 and also moved here from the East End.

When my mother was growing up here, the community was much smaller and everyone knew each other. My grandparents had a 7 bedroom house with a huge backyard.(in London we call it a back garden)

Bli ayin hora the community has exploded as well as many people coming to live here for the government benefits (although nowadays it’s not really enough to live on, not complaining just saying).

We have a severe housing shortage. Whatever new buildings are built are only apartments no more houses. It’s very expensive to buy and there are rarely houses on the market. Most people rent here and we get assistance from the government to pay our rent.
The community here is largely chassidish but there is still a small yekkish/yeshivish population. Most of them move to Manchester for the cheap housing available there.

There are lots of Jews in Stamford hill and there are also lots of non Jews. BH we get along with them on the whole.

There is lots of chessed here. Hatzolah often goes to non jews. Life is fairly fast paced with groceries open until 10/12. We have one grocery open 24 hours.

After visiting Bnei Brak and Boro park id compare it to BP in many ways but on a smaller scale.

I work part time and live in an apartment (we call it a flat!)

amother

Darkblue

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 4:07 pm

amother Magnolia wrote:

I grew up in Thornhill, Ontario, it’s a suburb just north of Toronto. It’s very clean with lots of trees. There’s a big fully kosher supermarket with pizza, sushi, bakery, fleshing takeout, deli counter etc, some kosher takeout options but nothing that great tbh (my subjective opinion now living in town). Going to school in Toronto proper I spent half my childhood carpooling to school and traffic was horrible. I believe there are now more school options closer north so that is less of an issue, as most ppl living in Thornhill can now send to schools in the area like BY Thornhill which is new or Toronto Cheder which moved north, or Netivot which is coed up to a certain grade. Being outside of city limits means limited access to public transportation, or needing to transfer a bunch of times. Public transportation in general is ok but not that convenient. There are government subsidies for childcare (it might be a new thing), free healthcare for all citizens, private health insurance is needed for dental, eye care, pharmacy, medical equipment etc. Healthcare is free but can be extremely challenging in certain circumstances (really hard to get into a pediatric or adult practice as there aren’t so many and they fill up fast, hard to get appointments, government can chose not to treat you if you’re old etc). There are lots of parks and playgrounds. Housing is exorbitantly expensive (think minimum 1 million for a three bedroom house that isn’t renovated). Salaries are lower than the tristate area on average and taxes are pretty high. It’s a pretty diverse area, lots of Chabad, yeshivish, MO, BT crowd, israelis, non frum etc. Retail is nothing like in the US, less selection and not as good sales, online shopping is much more limited than in the US.

So curious I we know each other, I also grew up in Thornhill.

amother

Daphne

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 4:31 pm

amother Azure wrote:

I definitely feel like I’m in BP whenever I come visit. Love the SH vibe!

amother

Purple

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 4:52 pm

amother Azure wrote:

I’m from Stamford Hill, London. People came to live here around the time of WW2 and also moved here from the East End.

When my mother was growing up here, the community was much smaller and everyone knew each other. My grandparents had a 7 bedroom house with a huge backyard.(in London we call it a back garden)

Bli ayin hora the community has exploded as well as many people coming to live here for the government benefits (although nowadays it’s not really enough to live on, not complaining just saying).

We have a severe housing shortage. Whatever new buildings are built are only apartments no more houses. It’s very expensive to buy and there are rarely houses on the market. Most people rent here and we get assistance from the government to pay our rent.
The community here is largely chassidish but there is still a small yekkish/yeshivish population. Most of them move to Manchester for the cheap housing available there.

There are lots of Jews in Stamford hill and there are also lots of non Jews. BH we get along with them on the whole.

There is lots of chessed here. Hatzolah often goes to non jews. Life is fairly fast paced with groceries open until 10/12. We have one grocery open 24 hours.

After visiting Bnei Brak and Boro park id compare it to
BP in many ways but on a smaller scale.

I work part time and live in an apartment (we call it a flat!)

There is also a Chabad community and some Adeni (Yemenite) Jews.

I am from SH and go back to visit and it has become a lot more chassidish over the years. Our litvish friends moved to Golders Green or Hendon to be near their kids. Some to Manchester too. Aguda now seems to be a chassidish shul.

I am a 4th generation Stamford Hiller! (although, true, I don't live there anymore) My great grandparents moved to the area in the 20s from Poland. My father went to Avigdor.

amother

Antiquewhite

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 9:04 pm

amother Daphne wrote:

Wow I love the way you wrote that!

You summarised it so well and succintly!!

I live in Manchester.

Its definitely become a lot more chassidish yes.

But Agudah is not.
The Rov is not chassidish though chassidim do like to daven there.

Its been my fathers shul growing up, and still is, and my husband davens there often too.

amother

Pistachio

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 10:09 pm

amother Purple wrote:

My husband went to Avigdar!

amother

Bluebell

Sat, Feb 18 2023, 11:56 pm

We live in Israel, made aliyah 1.5 years ago.

Life is so much more meaningful and rich and centered on being a Jew. My kids see our old cities and live knowing tanach. Their trips are to mekomot kedoshim and compliment their learning. There are less questions on if things happened and more on when.

We have no tuition. We’re paying less monthly than we did in the States. My salary is lower and my husband’s is the same because I have an Israeli job. But, we come out more ahead than we had in the States, retirement savings are easier here too. Healthcare is cheap. Consumables are expensive but not by very much next to NY.

The day to day is more stressful because there’s no Sundays off and work is a nine hour day, rather than eight in the States. I’ve never seen such good daycares and teachers. So there’s less to manage on the school end. We have no carpools and we love that we walk a lot. We do own a car but we often just walk for the enjoyment.

Life is like life everywhere but we live such a connected life in compared to an American Jew.