We need TRANSPARENCY from filter companies

amother

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 8:34 am

This is an s/o of all the filter threads etc.
I think the time has come that we need TRANSPARENCY from the companies.
They have gotten away with it till now but it's time they start clearing the mysteries so ppl can trust them.
Some q's they need to answer :
- What exactly can they access on our devices??
Maybe they need to work on 2 way encryption like social media companies have.

- what qualifications does a person need to be able to access ppls devices? IE training
personality etc...

- is there OVERSIGHT?

- based on what criteria do they decide to reject a request. This has always bothered me that they decide for me whats appropriate and what's not - meaning when they reject a request.

- is there anyone (school, rav etc) that they are sharing a person's personal activity? If yes why? I think they need to have a confidentiality agreement some sortve signature from them.

Bottom line:
They need to stop operating as a heimish thing that everyone just trusts and set up policies and procedures because people are stopping to fall for it.

Add your own things you'd need to hear from a filtering company to trust them

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 8:42 am

The issue is that everyone just ASSUMED everything was perfect and that TAG was filtering whatever you needed to. But any filtering company should have, and more often than not, has transparency with their clients.
So its very possible that others did ask TAG employees all of the questions you noted above.

amother

Pewter

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 8:51 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Many years ago when tag first started there were people pointing out how invasive it was and the privacy issues. So I did try bringing it up with tag and was told too bad this is how they do it. At that time I needed a tag filter because of where I worked and lived. But I was always uncomfortable with it. Their answers are not reassuring.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 8:55 am

amother Pewter wrote:

Thats awful and quiet literally bullying. Sorry you had to deal with that.
This is why such companies are not a good idea.
If one wants or needs a filter, it should be a globally well known company. Not a small frum one.

amother

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:37 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Could be I'd love to hear the answers. I use Techloq I didn't ask q's because it didn't occur to me and also if I do I'd probably not get normal responses, but yes I guess that's what we all need to do ask questions and demand accountability and transparency.

amother

Alyssum

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:42 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

No, I remember all those questions coming up last summer when there were the big women asifas. Remember the heated threads here? Anyone who dared ask them were promptly bashed for being so suspicious and cynical. I also remember there were posters who said they had volunteered at TAG or maybe their husbands, but when these sorts if questions were posed to them, they didn't have actual answers. Just kept repeating the same sort of PR blurb that has been used in any ad or write up about TAG in frum publications. It was odd.

amother

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:38 am

amother Alyssum wrote:

I guess this is a wakeup call. Maybe the headlines podcast can address this. We need to start asking questions and not accept vague pat answers.

Ima_Shelli

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 2:18 pm

amother Feverfew wrote:

How about no filters and no one worries about companies remotely accessing your device? You're welcome.

That’s my attitude. I periodically look through browsing history for my kids to make sure they haven’t accessed anything inappropriate while they were online (for another purpose, like a school project, that they’re allowed to be online for). Nothing concerning so far.

I have never accidentally stumbled onto inappropriate content, by the way. That never happens. But nah, I can filter for myself, thank you.

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Nov 19 2022, 2:19 pm

amother Alyssum wrote:

I didnt open those threads as I dont have a filter on my computer. Never thought to have one. But this is all really terrible. I mean, its literally like "big brother watching you" and it reminds me of the book "1984". And very cult like, if I must be honest.

aquad

Sat, Nov 19 2022, 3:44 pm

Ima_Shelli wrote:

Fyi incognito browsing disables the history. There is no record of the activity saved except with the isp.

amother

Bottlebrush

Sat, Nov 19 2022, 4:30 pm

My kids have qustodio on their devices not for an adult because I get to decide what they can see but all p [filth] is automatically filtered by using them. I want to have control over it not somebody else. And I pretty much let everything because I trust my kids. But I don't want them accidentally stumbling on something that he didn't mean to. I could never handle somebody deciding what sites were good enough for me. Obviously I'm not in a school that requires such intense filtering and we do have something on our devices as well that filters out p*** and on the house. Of course if someone's determined to get it I'm sure they can get it anyway. I do not doubt that. It's so easy to go buy another device. So that's why I feel like I need to let my kids have access to plenty of things. Plus they will learn over time what is appropriate for them

amother

Navyblue

Sat, Nov 19 2022, 7:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

This is an s/o of all the filter threads etc.
I think the time has come that we need TRANSPARENCY from the companies.
They have gotten away with it till now but it's time they start clearing the mysteries so ppl can trust them.
Some q's they need to answer :
- What exactly can they access on our devices??
Maybe they need to work on 2 way encryption like social media companies have.

- what qualifications does a person need to be able to access ppls devices? IE training
personality etc...

- is there OVERSIGHT?

- based on what criteria do they decide to reject a request. This has always bothered me that they decide for me whats appropriate and what's not - meaning when they reject a request.

- Is there anyone (school, rav etc) that they are sharing a person's personal activity? If yes why? I think they need to have a confidentiality agreement some sortve signature from them.

Bottom line:
They need to stop operating as a heimish thing that everyone just trusts and set up policies and procedures because people are stopping to fall for it.

Add your own things you'd need to hear from a filtering company to trust them

There should be no such thing as sharing of data. There is a law for that and there's a process developed when information is to be shared to outsiders - it's called a 'Warrant'.

English3

Sat, Nov 19 2022, 7:09 pm

Ima_Shelli wrote:

I thought history can be deleted, I doubt a kid would keep evidence of their misbehaviours.

amother

Copper

Sat, Nov 19 2022, 7:57 pm

English3 wrote:

I thought history can be deleted, I doubt a kid would keep evidence of their misbehaviours.

Yes, it's called incognito browsing and is so simple. Anyone who things they are monitoring their children's access by checking the browsing history is very naive.

estherj

Sat, Nov 19 2022, 10:03 pm

https://www.timesofisrael.com/...../amp/

“Mark Ostrowski, the head of engineering at the Check Point cybersecurity company, said in a case like Steen’s he would have had complete access to customers’ devices while installing software for them and could have installed remote access control software that would have given him continued access.

Ostrowski stressed that he did not know the specifics of the Steen case and could not make definitive comments on the details.

“Once you give access to a device to an individual, you’re really giving up the key to the front door of your house. Once they’re in your house they can go into your closets, they can go into your kitchen, they can go into your cabinets,” he said.

“You put trust in organizations to help you get through cyber issues, or in this particular case installing that filtration software, and if that person violates your trust that’s a big problem because you’re basically giving the key to the house to that individual,” he said.“

amother

Pewter

Sat, Nov 19 2022, 10:15 pm

amother Smokey wrote:

There's a reason my family uses nationally recognized filtering solutions where we have control of the filtering and our own data.

What do you use? I need something that works with macOS, iOS and windows and does not need to be installed at the router level or use a vpn. I haven’t found it yet Sad

amother

Pewter

Sat, Nov 19 2022, 10:18 pm

estherj wrote:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-jewish-school-teacher-charged-for-25-relations-crimes-including-rape-child-[filth]/amp/

“Mark Ostrowski, the head of engineering at the Check Point cybersecurity company, said in a case like Steen’s he would have had complete access to customers’ devices while installing software for them and could have installed remote access control software that would have given him continued access.

Ostrowski stressed that he did not know the specifics of the Steen case and could not make definitive comments on the details.

“Once you give access to a device to an individual, you’re really giving up the key to the front door of your house. Once they’re in your house they can go into your closets, they can go into your kitchen, they can go into your cabinets,” he said.

“You put trust in organizations to help you get through cyber issues, or in this particular case installing that filtration software, and if that person violates your trust that’s a big problem because you’re basically giving the key to the house to that individual,” he said.“

We know all this. The question is, if the person installing the filter only installs the filter and doesn’t install additional malware, how much is your privacy compromised? From what I can tell based on my use of a few frum filter companies over a few years, it’s a lot. And based on my interactions with one frum filter company when I confronted them over some scammy charges, they aren’t particularly worried about following the law.