S/o Why need a filter?

amother

Black

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:20 am

Chickensoupprof wrote:

My problem with actively listening and doing what 'gedolim' want or being totally preoccupied with gedolim is that it almost seems to me like catholicism. The beauty of Yiddishkeit I thought that we all have a connection with Hashem and not that there is someone who is playing the G'ds deputy, sometimes I feel that some people treat a gadol as a deputy of G'd I see a gadol mostly as someone who mastered halacha really well and has excellent middos, yet I can go to any gadol and ask for eitza but he doesn't know my background,my difficulties my community (which doesn't exist). And he would prob answer me as he would answer a wife of a BMG kollel avreich who lived already a frum life before conception...Then yeah I got an eitza of an gadol, or a certain and then I'm acting to it and then it doesn't work, and then what?

I'm not sure what you mean by G-d's deputy. But yes, Hashem gave us Rabbanim and Gedolim that we are supposed to listen to. That's part of being Jewish.

Chickensoupprof

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:24 am

amother Black wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by G-d's deputy. But yes, Hashem gave us Rabbanim and Gedolim that we are supposed to listen to. That's part of being Jewish.

We have gedolim but they are not holy and not in place of G'd himself, if you think that you are practing catholicsm. For me I listen to a daas torah for the eitzos and shailos I have and he knows my background and everything, it would again for me silly ot go to a rav who doesn't know about the hardships of being a BT... should I listen ot that rav only because he is a rav? I find it tricky I think that London Rav who abused that girl also was misusing his 'rav' status to abuse that girl.... good need to light now good shabbos (see I'm frum... won't be on the pc till tomorrow night, still a yid)

amother

Black

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:24 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

I honestly don’t even know who you are referring to as the Gedolei Hador. To me the Gedolei Hador all passed away and I miss them dearly because it’s hard to trust and believe the loud fire and brimstone speeches from people I don’t know or never even heard of.
Also Daas Torah for each person is someone else . We don’t all have to follow the same Rabbanim. Not all Rabbanim came out and announced that one MUST get filters. They may have suggested it , but there’s a difference between suggesting and demanding. Usually suggesting and showing a true care and compassion for the klal would be more accepted by people than blindly following someone who’s demanding.

Not all, but many. Many Gedolim who are no longer with us (but their word remains) and many Rabbanim who are still with us. Did your Rav (call it a gadol, a rav, a rabbi, whatever makes you happy) tell you it's ok to go unfiltered? Fine. I haven't heard of those yet. Too many said it's not ok.

amother

Black

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:28 am

Chickensoupprof wrote:

It's horribly tragic that there are Rabbanim that misuse their status.
That doesn't make all Rabbanim illegitimate.

No one said gedolim are in place of G-d Himself.
Daas Torah means that they are disseminating Hashem's Word.

Good Shabbos!

Trademark

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:29 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

Hashem always puts Tzaddikim in every dor.

PinkFridge

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:31 am

amother OP wrote:

The yatzer hara is us. We are the yatzer hara. It’s not some magical external force. Aren’t we supposed to be mastering our own weaknesses? Isn’t that what life is all about? How can we do that if there are artificial outside influences that prevent that? If a person moves my arm with a weight in it, I’m not building muscle but the other person has the power. And would you not have put a filter on if the gedolim didn’t tell you to do it?

So your saying not to use tools?
What about building a maakeh on a roof? Why not just exercise caution and seichel and train all who go on the roof to do so?

amother

Tuberose

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:35 am

Trademark wrote:

Hashem always puts Tzaddikim in every dor.

Can you please provide me with a list of the current Gedolei Hador so that I know who we are referring to? I’m over 40 and I have no idea who people are referring to when they say Gedolei Hador .

Trademark

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:41 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

Can you please provide me with a list of the current Gedolei Hador so that I know who we are referring to? I’m over 40 and I have no idea who people are referring to when they say Gedolei Hador .

Are you asking a random internet stranger to judge for you who is considered a gadol hador? If I had such a question I would ask my Rav for clarity.

Also it's not necessarily the Gadol haDor that you have to follow. What does your Rav say about filters? If he thinks it's necessary then put a filter and if he doesn't then don't put one.

PinkFridge

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:45 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

Can you please provide me with a list of the current Gedolei Hador so that I know who we are referring to? I’m over 40 and I have no idea who people are referring to when they say Gedolei Hador .

There is a concept of lo alman Yisrael. We'll always have leadership of the caliber we need.
I'm not sure of the source, just sharing the concept.

amother

Tuberose

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 11:46 am

Trademark wrote:

Yes. Im asking the people who have an issue with my statement, where I mentioned that we have “so called” Gedolei Hador . But when I sincerely ask who are the Gedolei Hador we are referring to , I’m not getting an answer.
I have a rav. He paskens my shailos and answers my questions. But never have I found the need to ask him his opinion of filters. He never spoke about them to me. The only people I know that have spoken about them are those that speak at asifas and stuff. They are not necessarily my daas torah. But then there is this generalization that we have to listen to the Gedolei Hador. So please tell me , who are those Gedolei Hador? Are they only Gedolei Hador for some people? And not the rest of the dor? I’m honestly confused.

Trademark

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 12:00 pm

amother Tuberose wrote:

Please don't dismiss people by saying "so called." They see it as important to listen to gedolei hador, whomever they refer to, and it's very dismissive to say that.

But I agree that you have a valid question that the people who say we should listen to them should answer you. (BTW I only said that Hashem puts Tzaddikim in every dor, not that I know who they are or how we know whom to listen to)

Also if it's not your daas torah, then you can just ignore these random internet strangers Very Happy

. If you follow your daas torah and confident with your way then good for you!

amother

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 1:11 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

So your saying not to use tools?
What about building a maakeh on a roof? Why not just exercise caution and seichel and train all who go on the roof to do so?

I guess it depends on what you think is a tool. In my mind something like a filter perpetuates the weakness. I can see why people might want to block a certain app or social media site.

I have a feeling that I get that people think #1. Have filter=safe. #2. Have filter=I'm responsible and Torahdik and those that don't, aren't. #3. No filter=Immoral and it's impossible to live without one.

amother

Molasses

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 2:04 pm

amother Black wrote:

How about because gedolim said we should filter our devices, and as Yidden we listen to our gedolim. We don't need to "feel" that we need it.

My gedolim are saying internet is assur, period. I haven't yet heard otherwise.... so why are you here?

socialbutterfly

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 2:09 pm

I like having filter to limit my access for time wasting purposes. I don’t want access to YouTube. Nothing to do with inappropriate content.

One could definitely use parental controls but they would have to have enough self control not to change those controls. Might not work for everyone.

As for men, why put down people who are self aware and don’t want to be tested? Personally, I’ve never been a man, but having many family members who are men, they all seem very aware of the slippery slope and lure of certain content. It seems that for most males certain images are more into big than for most women. Allow them to decide the limits they so desire.

amother

Black

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 2:26 pm

amother Molasses wrote:

My gedolim are saying internet is assur, period. I haven't yet heard otherwise.... so why are you here?

I haven't heard that it's assur, period. I heard/was told that unfiltered is assur.
My internet is very filtered.
If you heard that, why are you here?

amother

Lawngreen

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 2:38 pm

Imagine if we would have a new organization that comes to your house on shabbos to verify that you’re not accidentally being mechalel shabbos. Or an organization that gives a hechsher on clothing to make sure it’s tznius. I don’t see why a filter is any different.

amother

Molasses

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 2:41 pm

amother Black wrote:

I haven't heard that it's assur, period. I heard/was told that unfiltered is assur.
My internet is very filtered.
If you heard that, why are you here?

Names:

R Chaim Kanievsky
R Matisyahu Salamon
R Elya Ber Wachtfogel
R Ephraim Waxman
Basically all Chassidish Rabbanim.

Why I'm here is my business.

amother

Black

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 2:53 pm

amother Molasses wrote:

Names:

R Chaim Kanievsky
R Matisyahu Salamon
R Elya Ber Wachtfogel
R Ephraim Waxman
Basically all Chassidish Rabbanim.

Maybe the Chassidish Rabbanim said all internet is assur.
I'm not Chassidish.
I'm 100% sure the other 4 said unfiltered is assur.

amother

Alyssum

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 3:02 pm

amother Lawngreen wrote:

This. A filter sounds like the modesty police from Iran or something.