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Forum
-> Computers, Phones and Devices
shabbatiscoming
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 Sun, Nov 20 2022, 8:42 am
| PinkFridge wrote: | | Do the rabbanim talk about editing or curating exposure? | There are no such asifot about the internet on my world. Never seen or heard anything.
People or families decide if they want a filter or not. Thats all.
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Chickensoupprof
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 8:50 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | There are no such asifot about the internet on my world. Never seen or heard anything.
People or families decide if they want a filter or not. Thats all. |
Here too, I think in the NL the frum (the yekkishe ones not Lubavitch or more yeshivish) people (women wearing a sheitel, men sometimes a hat), mostly have a TV in the home, and if not they have lots of secular media (girls reading things like a dutch TeenVogue) read secular books and I don't think everyone has a filter. It is also not required by the frum school there. If people do it, they do it for themselves... It honestly feels cult like to do everything right in the mold otherwise your kid won't go to a good school etc...
It is also that in the NL, I'm considered chareidi/''really'' frum based on which shul I go in Amsterdam and the fact I cover my hair. MO in the NL is zionistic, wearing short sleeves as a woman and cover your head with a hat in shul and during kiddisuh and for man sometimes not wearing a kippah inside the house.
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PinkFridge
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 8:53 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | There are no such asifot about the internet on my world. Never seen or heard anything.
People or families decide if they want a filter or not. Thats all. |
I should have phrased things differently. Exposure in general in a changing world. Not just filters.
Do you remember the thread - and a Cross-Currents article - about technology guidelines in DL schools?
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shabbatiscoming
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 8:58 am
| PinkFridge wrote: | I should have phrased things differently. Exposure in general in a changing world. Not just filters.
Do you remember the thread - and a Cross-Currents article - about technology guidelines in DL schools? | I dont know about the thread or article, or the magazine.
My daughter has been DL schools since first grade. She is in 9th grade. There have never been any technology guidlines. Maybe for the torani track in the DL achools, but in general, there are no such guidlines.
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Bnei Berak 10
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 9:02 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | I dont know about the thread or article, or the magazine.
My daughter has been DL schools since first grade. She is in 9th grade. There have never been any technology guidlines. Maybe for the torani track in the DL achools, but in general, there are no such guidlines. |
What is the Torani track in DL schools? Not familiar so it would nice to understand.TIA.
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shabbatiscoming
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 9:04 am
| Bnei Berak 10 wrote: | | What is the Torani track in DL schools? Not familiar so it would nice to understand.TIA. | Rhere are mamads that are mamalachti dati torani. Its not really s track per say, but ive never heard of any tech guidlines in regular dl mamad schools, so maybe dl torani schools have that.
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essie14
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 9:13 am
My son is in a regular DL HS. They teach internet safety. They know that none of the parents or kids are going to install filters. Well maybe some of the parents will install on their kids devices. But most people who work in the secular world cannot access work stuff if there's a filter. DH has had this so many times with employees of his. They have to take off their filter in order to work.
And the kids all play these video games that I'm sure the filter wouldn't allow.
The school maybe mentioned it once as an aside , like just to cover their bases, but it's not taken seriously.
We teach our kids internet safety and we monitor their search history.
I've been using unfiltered internet for over 20 years. Never accidentally stumbled on p0rn.
I mean in the way beginning you could sometimes get pop ups when you watched TV online but then I got a pop-up blocker.
Anyway, I never clicked on the pop ups. I'd just close them.
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amother
Bluebonnet
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 9:48 am
| essie14 wrote: | My son is in a regular DL HS. They teach internet safety. They know that none of the parents or kids are going to install filters. Well maybe some of the parents will install on their kids devices. But most people who work in the secular world cannot access work stuff if there's a filter. DH has had this so many times with employees of his. They have to take off their filter in order to work.
And the kids all play these video games that I'm sure the filter wouldn't allow.
The school maybe mentioned it once as an aside , like just to cover their bases, but it's not taken seriously.
We teach our kids internet safety and we monitor their search history.
I've been using unfiltered internet for over 20 years. Never accidentally stumbled on p0rn.
I mean in the way beginning you could sometimes get pop ups when you watched TV online but then I got a pop-up blocker.
Anyway, I never clicked on the pop ups. I'd just close them. |
I think we're actually doing a disservice to our kids by not teaching them internet safety & how to properly use the internet. Imagine if we'd have the same approach to reading materials. There's danger with reading materials as well. There are plenty of unsavory reading materials, there are a host of reading materials that contradict the Torah, or misinterpret its words, and we don't want them in the hands of our children. Do we ban all kind of reading materials for that matter? Do we not allow any sort of reading materials in our homes? Or have we taught our kids how to properly go about this?
Why can't we do the same for the internet. True, the internet is a tougher item than books to work with. But it's the way of the world, and it's here to stay. It's not only here to stay as an entertainment tool, but its here to stay as a basic life tool. It has become a medium for all communications, both professional and personal. It has become a financial tool, with banking and other transactions all being done online. And so on with shopping, educational tool, resources and other life routines. Our kids WILL be exposed to it one way or the other, and the internet WILL be interwoven in every aspect of their lives when they are adults.
So what do we gain by not teaching them? More harm than good. Because when (not if) they do get exposed to it, they won't have any idea how to navigate it. The risks are so much higher then, and there is the increased likelihood that they will fall prey to it. If we rather take the approach of teaching them when they're young, and having it be a natural part of our lives, then the high risks are mitigated. Just like we teach kashrus to our kids from when they're young, just like we teach kids (and have oversight in place) as to what materials they're reading, we need to do the same with the internet.
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PinkFridge
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 9:57 am
| amother Bluebonnet wrote: | | I think we're actually doing a disservice to our kids by not teaching them internet safety & how to properly use the internet. Imagine if we'd have the same approach to reading materials. There's danger with reading materials as well. There are plenty of unsavory reading materials, there are a host of reading materials that contradict the Torah, or misinterpret its words, and we don't want them in the hands of our children. Do we ban all kind of reading materials for that matter? Do we not allow any sort of reading materials in our homes? Or have we taught our kids how to properly go about this?. |
(I quote Hugh Hewitt or his guests on occasion. I should mention that I don't totally trust Hewitt but he does have some interesting things to say. Like this:) Hugh Hewitt, a lawyer and conservative talk show host, recommends not letting kids on social media till 15 or so for their own sakes, so that impetuous decisions won't dog them later and endanger them now.
Interesting perspective from someone totally outside our community. (He's mentioned that his wife has a Jewish great-grandfather or something.)
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amother
Bluebonnet
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 10:02 am
| PinkFridge wrote: | (I quote Hugh Hewitt or his guests on occasion. I should mention that I don't totally trust Hewitt but he does have some interesting things to say. Like this:) Hugh Hewitt, a lawyer and conservative talk show host, recommends not letting kids on social media till 15 or so for their own sakes, so that impetuous decisions won't dog them later and endanger them now.
Interesting perspective from someone totally outside our community. (He's mentioned that his wife has a Jewish great-grandfather or something.) |
I agree with that. I don't think kids should be on social media. But social media does not encompass all of the internet. There's so much more to the internet than that. We can teach kids internet safety without them being on social media.
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singleagain
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 10:05 am
Most social media sites say that if the kid is under 13, they need their parents permission anyways so it's not like totally weird to restrict social media
But there are a ton of other things. I mean you used to go to the library and look up the encyclopedia and now you could just go to Wikipedia and check out their sources and stuff. But you know it's it's useful
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amother
Lawngreen
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 10:41 am
| amother Bluebonnet wrote: | I think we're actually doing a disservice to our kids by not teaching them internet safety & how to properly use the internet. Imagine if we'd have the same approach to reading materials. There's danger with reading materials as well. There are plenty of unsavory reading materials, there are a host of reading materials that contradict the Torah, or misinterpret its words, and we don't want them in the hands of our children. Do we ban all kind of reading materials for that matter? Do we not allow any sort of reading materials in our homes? Or have we taught our kids how to properly go about this?
Why can't we do the same for the internet. True, the internet is a tougher item than books to work with. But it's the way of the world, and it's here to stay. It's not only here to stay as an entertainment tool, but its here to stay as a basic life tool. It has become a medium for all communications, both professional and personal. It has become a financial tool, with banking and other transactions all being done online. And so on with shopping, educational tool, resources and other life routines. Our kids WILL be exposed to it one way or the other, and the internet WILL be interwoven in every aspect of their lives when they are adults.
So what do we gain by not teaching them? More harm than good. Because when (not if) they do get exposed to it, they won't have any idea how to navigate it. The risks are so much higher then, and there is the increased likelihood that they will fall prey to it. If we rather take the approach of teaching them when they're young, and having it be a natural part of our lives, then the high risks are mitigated. Just like we teach kashrus to our kids from when they're young, just like we teach kids (and have oversight in place) as to what materials they're reading, we need to do the same with the internet. |
I agree. I wish they would teach the kids how to use the internet safely and responsibly in the chasidish schools instead of burying their heads in the sand and pretending that if you force the parents to install filters then all the internet troubles will go away.
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amother
Impatiens
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:22 am
| essie14 wrote: | My son is in a regular DL HS. They teach internet safety. They know that none of the parents or kids are going to install filters. Well maybe some of the parents will install on their kids devices. But most people who work in the secular world cannot access work stuff if there's a filter. DH has had this so many times with employees of his. They have to take off their filter in order to work.
And the kids all play these video games that I'm sure the filter wouldn't allow.
The school maybe mentioned it once as an aside , like just to cover their bases, but it's not taken seriously.
We teach our kids internet safety and we monitor their search history.
I've been using unfiltered internet for over 20 years. Never accidentally stumbled on p0rn.
I mean in the way beginning you could sometimes get pop ups when you watched TV online but then I got a pop-up blocker.
Anyway, I never clicked on the pop ups. I'd just close them. |
I taught in modern schools that were all about the internet safety, etc etc. Each student had their own laptop, and as a teacher I had access to all their screens. The things they had on their screens would make you vomit.
Everyone here won’t let girls be in the same room alone with a Rav, but are totally fine with your child being alone on the internet with no one watching them.
Also, I’d really like to know everyone’s age in this thread. Older people cannot fathom how people would need a filter. They do. I’m speaking as someone who, as a child, had unsupervised television from the days when they only broadcast more explicit scenes of s-x and violence past my bedtime, and I saw quite a number of bad things that I wish I hadn’t seen. Children are curious. Telling them not to do something makes them want to try it.
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amother
Impatiens
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:23 am
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Also, if you actually think you have a complete picture of what your kids are doing online by “monitoring search history” and checking their history, you are woefully woefully naive.
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amother
Impatiens
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:26 am
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And finally, gotta love it that a bunch of women who spend zero time learning have loads of opinions and feel they know better and have utter disdain for people who have cumulative millions of hours of dedicated study to that subject.
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amother
Ginger
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:41 am
| amother Impatiens wrote: | | And finally, gotta love it that a bunch of women who spend zero time learning have loads of opinions and feel they know better and have utter disdain for people who have cumulative millions of hours of dedicated study to that subject. |
What subject? The internet?
The loudest calls against internet use are made by rabbis who don't pay bills online or make doctor's appointments or buy plane tickets or use navigation apps or any of the things that have changed the face of modern society.
Rabbis have a long history of getting things wrong. From Rabbi Akiva supporting the Bar Kochba rebellion (and yes, he was still the gadol hador) to the rabbis of 1930s Europe advising their flocks to stay put, rabbis have shown us that they don't necessarily have a handle on things outside their area of specialty.
There's a korban for the Sanhedrin (made of gedolim) to bring when they make mistakes. Because they do make mistakes, even in halacha. Rabbinic infallibility is not a Jewish concept.
We can be very respectful without outsourcing our decision making.
We don't give matches to young children. At some point, though, you need to learn to strike a match, and to understand fire safety. We don't forbid adults from walking into mainstream supermarkets because they might buy nonkosher food. We assume that they can control themselves.
There's disgusting stuff on the internet, and there's wonderful stuff as well. At some point, you have to treat adults like adults and trust them to know right from wrong.
(Also, I don't spend zero time learning, but that's irrelevant.)
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shabbatiscoming
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:44 am
| amother Impatiens wrote: | | And finally, gotta love it that a bunch of women who spend zero time learning have loads of opinions and feel they know better and have utter disdain for people who have cumulative millions of hours of dedicated study to that subject. | huh? The rabbanim are not spending hours learning about the internet.
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amother
Bluebonnet
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:47 am
| amother Impatiens wrote: | I taught in modern schools that were all about the internet safety, etc etc. Each student had their own laptop, and as a teacher I had access to all their screens. The things they had on their screens would make you vomit.
Everyone here won’t let girls be in the same room alone with a Rav, but are totally fine with your child being alone on the internet with no one watching them.
Also, I’d really like to know everyone’s age in this thread. Older people cannot fathom how people would need a filter. They do. I’m speaking as someone who, as a child, had unsupervised television from the days when they only broadcast more explicit scenes of s-x and violence past my bedtime, and I saw quite a number of bad things that I wish I hadn’t seen. Children are curious. Telling them not to do something makes them want to try it. |
Teaching kids about internet safety and having rules/oversight in place are not mutually exclusive items. They go hand in hand.
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socialbutterfly
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:48 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | huh? The rabbanim are not spending hours learning about the internet. |
Don’t think she’s referring to the study of the internet. I believe she’s referring to the Torah idea of guarding one’s eyes….
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socialbutterfly
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:49 am
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If a child want to watch p*rn how does any lesson of interest safety stop that from happening?
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