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Do u find all the "art project" shul womens events insulting
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:23 pm
seems that, at most shuls, the vast majority of women's events are silly arts and crafts projects. learning events are far, far less common, in my experience. I find this insulting and patronizing, as if only men are fit to use their brains and learn something jewish... while women are dumb little children who need sit at little chairs and do finger-painting.

sure, some arts and crafts events can be great. but there should also be women's learning events.

does anyone else feel this way? why are things like this? do women prefer the arts and crafts to learning?
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amother




Hyssop
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:24 pm
amother OP wrote:
seems that, at most shuls, the vast majority of women's events are silly arts and crafts projects. learning events are far, far less common, in my experience. I find this insulting and patronizing, as if only men are fit to use their brains and learn something jewish... while women are dumb little children who need sit at little chairs and do finger-painting.

sure, some arts and crafts events can be great. but there should also be women's learning events.

does anyone else feel this way? why are things like this? do women prefer the arts and crafts to learning?


Never seen this...in my community the women. Have learning groups, networking groups, tehillim and challah baking. Bummer for me, cause I love arts and crafts lol
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ShishKabob




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:25 pm
Not sure which shul you are part of. Where I come from they have learning events / shiurim for the women as well.
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amother




Anemone
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:26 pm
I like both but do wish we had more learning. I've started looking into what a more modern local shul has to offer because what I really like is academic Jewish learning and not the kinds of women's shiurim I hear about on my WhatsApp.
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amother




Babypink
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:26 pm
amother OP wrote:
seems that, at most shuls, the vast majority of women's events are silly arts and crafts projects. learning events are far, far less common, in my experience. I find this insulting and patronizing, as if only men are fit to use their brains and learn something jewish... while women are dumb little children who need sit at little chairs and do finger-painting.

sure, some arts and crafts events can be great. but there should also be women's learning events.

does anyone else feel this way? why are things like this? do women prefer the arts and crafts to learning?


I never heard of this. What do you mean by arts and crafts?
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taketwo




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:26 pm
For me personally, it doesn't bother me. A Jewish woman nowadays has so much on her plate, a mindless social event is just what the doctor ordered. She deserves it. I don't think it's about what were capable of, I think it's about getting a well deserved break.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:28 pm
amother Babypink wrote:
I never heard of this. What do you mean by arts and crafts?


candle making, plate decorating, menorah making, etc.
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amother




Pink
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:29 pm
Never heard of it but I agree it sounds like kindergarten and not something I’d appreciate.
I guess some people do enjoy it. 🤷‍♀️
Are you forced to participate?
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amother




Babypink
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:29 pm
amother OP wrote:
candle making, plate decorating, menorah making, etc.


Hmmm never heard of this. The most crafty thing we ever had was a paint night.
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amother




OP
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:31 pm
ShishKabob wrote:
Not sure which shul you are part of. Where I come from they have learning events / shiurim for the women as well.


this isn't just our current shul. it's also various shuls we've attended in the past, other shuls in the area that I'm on the mailing list for, etc. just seems like a general trend and not something true about my one shul.
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Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:35 pm
taketwo wrote:
For me personally, it doesn't bother me. A Jewish woman nowadays has so much on her plate, a mindless social event is just what the doctor ordered. She deserves it. I don't think it's about what were capable of, I think it's about getting a well deserved break.


Never heard of it, but would agree with this. I would enjoy such an activity as long as the crafts are not on a kiddie level.
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mha3484




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:38 pm
Everyone should get to have an outlet and all the better if it has elements of yiddishkeit too.

Where I live, there is a group of women that have a shiur/cocktail/craft thing. There's a group that does a performance with music, dance, drama. There are shiurim mostly on summer shabbosim but also during the week too. I went to the rochel imenu video this month and a parenting lecture. One was women only one was mixed. There was another video shown for women but it didnt work out for me to go. I feel like there is something for everyone.
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amother




Clematis
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:42 pm
At our shul, all shiurim are open to women, including gemara, such as daf yomi, and including the all night Shavuos learning, at which both men and women deliver talks to the whole shul. Women are also allowed to give the drasha after davening to the entire congregation. Our vacation incentive learning programs are also equally offered to boys and girls.

So I am not insulted when we have a women's social event centered around a craft. It's supposed to be fun and social and not much of a learning opportunity, although someone typically does say a short dvar Torah.

If all of the learning and teaching I described above was off limits to women and girls, I would feel very differently I'm sure.
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watergirl




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:45 pm
Yes, I find it to be insulting, which is why one of the things I look for in a shul is a vibrant menu of offerings for women... BH that exists where I live.

And if I can break it down even more, when a shul does offer shiurim for women but the shiur is limited to things like halachos of the shabbos kitchen and shmiras halashon, I find that to be even more demeaning than offering nothing at all. These are very important and should 100% be offered on a regular basis (like once a year or so, whatever), but not in exclusion of other topics outside of cooking and gossiping (I.e., things that are stereotypically a women's issue).
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happyone




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:46 pm
amother OP wrote:
candle making, plate decorating, menorah making, etc.


I would so love this.
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amother




Clematis
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:48 pm
amother Anemone wrote:
I like both but do wish we had more learning. I've started looking into what a more modern local shul has to offer because what I really like is academic Jewish learning and not the kinds of women's shiurim I hear about on my WhatsApp.

You might be interested in the three courses that YU's GPATS program is offering, starting this week. They are virtual, but live and instructor-led. There are suggested donation amounts, but not required costs.

Parshanut: Medieval Commentators’ Methodologies with Dr. Michelle Levine
Mondays - 8:00-9:00 p.m.
January 23,30 - February 27

In-Depth Study of the Laws of Niddah With Professor Nechama Price
Motzei Shabbat - 8:00 - 9:00 p.m.
December 3 - January 7
 
Gemara Skills Crash Course: Sanhedrin with Dena Block 
Wednesdays: 12:00 -1:00 p.m.
November 30-January 4

See here for registration and more summary information: https://www.yu.edu/gpats/learning
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amother




Blueberry
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:51 pm
Nope. My shul has a great variety of activities including shiurim by and for women and cholent-making competitions by and for men, as well as shiurim open to both men and women. And the arts and crafts sessions at the senior center are open to anyone but attended almost exclusively by women including yours truly. Doesn't bother me in the least. I enjoy the opportunity to spend an hour acquiring a little crafty skill and a completed project to bring home.I didn't have much opportunity to do this sort of thing when I was younger.
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chestnut




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:52 pm
Many shuls have women's Shiurim. Even neighborhoods/blocks have them, in people's houses.
If you said those have limited topics, then I could hear that.
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amother




Ghostwhite
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 12:55 pm
Bh plenty of high level learning opportunities for women where I am, but I do find the more "fun" types of events to be very gendered, and yes, it bothers me. The men get like a beer tasting night and the women get flower arranging. Yuck. Would 1000% take beer over flowers. Also I hate that the men's events get real food and the women get fancy salad. I am not interested in putting in the effort of arranging childcare and getting dressed up for a stupid salad.
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BrisketBoss




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2022, 1:03 pm
amother Ghostwhite wrote:
Bh plenty of high level learning opportunities for women where I am, but I do find the more "fun" types of events to be very gendered, and yes, it bothers me. The men get like a beer tasting night and the women get flower arranging. Yuck. Would 1000% take beer over flowers. Also I hate that the men's events get real food and the women get fancy salad. I am not interested in putting in the effort of arranging childcare and getting dressed up for a stupid salad.


Fancy salad is one of the most exciting things in the world to me. Throw in some sushi and I'm THERE. 😁
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