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Ugh I feel so guilty- sleep training
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 6:24 pm
amother Jade wrote:
When we make the choice of having a baby, we make the choice of properly caring for the baby, which includes getting up at night for the baby. Having a full nights sleep generally does not come together with having a baby. We don't train babies to not do something that's natural to them to suit parents needs. Parents bend their needs for the baby. Not the other way around. OP isn't describing out of the ordinary behavior from the baby that requires such drastic action. The baby goes right back to sleep. Moving baby out of the room is a good idea, if not done yet.


Who is to say sleep training is not properly caring?

there is much more evidence that sending babies to babysitters for many hours a day is,waaaaaaaaay more damaging than sleep training

Yet I bet you send your baby to a babysitter, Jade
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amother
Viola


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 6:29 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Who is to say sleep training is not properly caring?

there is much more evidence that sending babies to babysitters for many hours a day is,waaaaaaaaay more damaging than sleep training

Yet I bet you send your baby to a babysitter, Jade


And chances are OP is sending to a babysitter on top of wanting to sleep train
2 wrongs don't make a right.

Lots of babies who go put to babysitters wale up at might because they just want their mommy's comfort becuse their out during the day.
Advising to sleep train makes it all worse.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 6:33 pm
Maybe.

Or maybe if OP gets some rest she will be able to give her baby more attention in the evening.

Her baby will probably sleep better too,
and be less kvetchy.
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mushkamothers




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 6:35 pm
After such a birth I personally would be cosleeping, nursing on demand, and doing lots of baby massage and skin to skin. For both baby and for my Bonding. I don't believe or recommend everyone to cosleep so that's not my point - my point is that I'd want to be so extra gentle, Ferber would be the last thing I'd even consider. There are other methods you can do in the meantime and yes definitely learn what is normal infant sleep bc your baby is just being a baby right now.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 6:48 pm
mushkamothers wrote:
After such a birth I personally would be cosleeping, nursing on demand, and doing lots of baby massage and skin to skin. For both baby and for my Bonding. I don't believe or recommend everyone to cosleep so that's not my point - my point is that I'd want to be so extra gentle, Ferber would be the last thing I'd even consider. There are other methods you can do in the meantime and yes definitely learn what is normal infant sleep bc your baby is just being a baby right now.

Just curious; did u ever have such a birth? Or your comment is hypothetical?
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Sebastian




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 6:51 pm
OP are you nursing or bottle feeding? Is baby getting solids? Is he in your room? Does he have a paci or blanky he likes?

Is getting up at night really hard for you?

Personally I would stop rocking to sleep abd just sit near him and see if you can get him to sleep on his own
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 6:54 pm
Sebastian wrote:
OP are you nursing or bottle feeding? Is baby getting solids? Is he in your room? Does he have a paci or blanky he likes?

Is getting up at night really hard for you?

Personally I would stop rocking to sleep abd just sit near him and see if you can get him to sleep on his own

Bottle feeding- my milk never came in Sad
Baby started solids at 4 months due to doctors recommendation to ease colic
He refuses to take a paci from day one. Not sure about a blanky, he uses the same one but not sure of there is an attachment. He sleeps in his room, and my husband brings him to my bed by the third time he wakes up (around 5 and I either way get up at 6:30).
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amother
Jade


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 6:55 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Who is to say sleep training is not properly caring?

there is much more evidence that sending babies to babysitters for many hours a day is,waaaaaaaaay more damaging than sleep training

Yet I bet you send your baby to a babysitter, Jade


None of my babies were ever left at a sitter. I started working remotely when my eldest was born.
(Though leaving a baby to cry themselves to sleep, may evidently be more damaging to them, then them going to the same steady sitter every day from when they're young.)
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 6:57 pm
amother Tangerine wrote:
Maybe try craniosacral therapy for the baby

How regulated are you with your baby?

What does regulated mean? And this therapy is offered to babies?
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amother
Currant


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:00 pm
Mazel tov! I’m sorry to hear you had a traumatic birth. That sounds so scary! Sleep train your baby! It’s totally fine. They don’t remember things from such a young age. We moved our baby out of our room and did Ferber method around 5 months. We should have moved him out around 2 months when he started sleeping through the night himself. The first week was so hard and my DH and I took turns crying and leaving our home but it was so worth it! Sleep training was about teaching our baby how to self sooth and put himself back to sleep. We all wake up multiple times throughout the night. My baby (and looks like yours too) needs to learn the tools to put himself back to sleep. We all need good sleep including your baby. It’s super important. He wants to sleep through the night. He just needs some guidance. Just like you’ll teach him how to use a spoon and a fork, teach him how to sleep and he will forever thank you!

Btw my baby LOVES me and DH to pieces! He can’t get enough of us even though we sleep trained him.

This is a super controversial topic here but wanted to share this perspective.
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amother
Currant


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:03 pm
I also want to add we have our baby a breathable little blanky that he has as a comfort and a sound machine. He also has a paci. You want to set up his room so he can be conditioned each night to go to bed. Kind of how you brush your teeth and put on pajamas and have that pillow you like
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amother
Jade


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:05 pm
amother Currant wrote:
Mazel tov! I’m sorry to hear you had a traumatic birth. That sounds so scary! Sleep train your baby! It’s totally fine. They don’t remember things from such a young age. We moved our baby out of our room and did Ferber method around 5 months. We should have moved him out around 2 months when he started sleeping through the night himself. The first week was so hard and my DH and I took turns crying and leaving our home but it was so worth it! Sleep training was about teaching our baby how to self sooth and put himself back to sleep. We all wake up multiple times throughout the night. My baby (and looks like yours too) needs to learn the tools to put himself back to sleep. We all need good sleep including your baby. It’s super important. He wants to sleep through the night. He just needs some guidance. Just like you’ll teach him how to use a spoon and a fork, teach him how to sleep and he will forever thank you!

Btw my baby LOVES me and DH to pieces! He can’t get enough of us even though we sleep trained him.

This is a super controversial topic here but wanted to share this perspective.


False.
You can choose to sleep train. But don't make a blatant statement that they don't remember. Even if the baby loves you and DH. It doesn't mean that there are no negative effects.
There are methods to help baby learn a healthy sleep pattern in a gentle way that doesn't involve leaving them to cry.
Don't forget that OP had a traumatic birth, which leaves significant trauma for the baby as well. OP is still traumatized, and baby is most likely still traumatized as well. Adding the trauma of CIO is just negligence from the parents part and lack of understanding towards babies emotional needs and trauma in babies.
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:06 pm
amother OP wrote:
Just curious; did u ever have such a birth? Or your comment is hypothetical?


I've had such a birth.
I don't cosleep but I wouldn't sleep train an already traumatized baby. Waking up 3 times a night is overwhelming but not out of the normal. I'd try not picking them up and giving them what they need in their crib without talking or smiling. THen sitting with them until they fall back asleep.
It's hard.
But the baby is just as traumatized as you are.
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Sebastian




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:19 pm
amother OP wrote:
Bottle feeding- my milk never came in Sad
Baby started solids at 4 months due to doctors recommendation to ease colic
He refuses to take a paci from day one. Not sure about a blanky, he uses the same one but not sure of there is an attachment. He sleeps in his room, and my husband brings him to my bed by the third time he wakes up (around 5 and I either way get up at 6:30).


No need to feel guilty about not nursing, bh your son is growing and doing well. I would try to give him more formula throughout the day so he doesnt need extra calories at night. I would then try to train him to not need to be rocked to sleep. I wouldnt sleep train unless and until he is at least falling asleep with no rocking. You can try putting him to sleep with your shirt. Sometimes your smell can reassure them and put them to sleep. Once he can sleep without being rocked and he is getting enough formula throughout the day, you can try having him drop one wake up time and work your way from there. Its pretty normal for a 7 mo old to wake up twice at night btw.

And hugs to you. His birth must have been so so so hard to recover from.
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scintilla




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:24 pm
amother Tangerine wrote:
Maybe try craniosacral therapy for the baby

How regulated are you with your baby?


I only read up till this point. But this. My baby also had birth trauma (nothing like your story - my gosh you are a champ!! I hope you got yourself some therapy if you felt you needed it, and that you had help in your recovery!!) and he was an awful sleeper. Up every hour or two for the first year of his life, and not much better after that, until about 18 months when finally it clicked.

The only thing that REALLY helped was craniosacral therapy. It's the craziest thing really because you don't even really see them doing anything that looks like much. But the impact is obvious immediately - at least, it was with all the kids that I took, not just this child. I'm going to write a lot more on the sleep topic but really this is key. Get to the root of the issue and then sleep will happen naturally without needing to sleep train.

And I know you asked about sleep training, and I totally understand why. I literally don't know how I survived those nights (let's not talk about the weeks of teething where some nights were 10 minutes of sleep at a time). I just don't think it's the right thing when a baby has trauma, plus honestly kids like these don't generally take to sleep training. Ask me how I know...!! At the same time, your mental health is also extremely important. If you feel you have reached that point, it's definitely better to sleep train than to feel like you want to hurt your baby ch"v, or that you're really going off the deep end etc. - only you know that point. Just know that it may not take for him - I know my son would just keep.on.screaming. I won't even discuss the pros and cons of sleep training because I understand that you are probably at the point where you may need to do it either way, just for your sanity.

Other things that helped:
- taking shifts with my husband so at least someone got some sleep (baby was in our room so we took him out to the couch and the other person stayed in the room and slept)
- understanding that something is really bothering him, he's not just screaming for nothing. That is to say, he's having a hard time, not trying to give you a hard time. The compassion piece really helped me personally
- know that it really won't last forever. I promise that barring some extreme special needs, he won't be up 3 times a night for years on end. This WILL get better, and hopefully pretty soon (developmentally it's normal for there to be a sleep regression at around 8 months so don't be disheartened if it gets better and then worse again, but it WILL get better and stay better soon!!)
- do whatever works and don't worry about long term. I mean whatever. In your bed the whole night? Nursing back to sleep? Eating right before bed? Also whatever works to get you through the day
- if you haven't already, explore with your doctor if there's a physical piece as well like reflux, a feeding issue causing him to wake up because he's hungry, etc

One more thing that may help: there's a concept of 'layering sleep associations'. What this basically means is, say right now your baby only falls asleep while nursing or rocking. So while you're rocking, you also pat their back, or sing, or give them a stuffed toy to hold. Then in their mind they link these actions/items with sleep - it's sleep associations. Add in more sleep associations to what already works, and over time, you can take away the rocking for example and the other things (the stuffed toy, music instead of singing) can replace you so you can get some sleep. It's a slow process but it does work.

I hope this helps. It's not for nothing that sleep deprivation is literally a form of torture. Please know that you are doing an AMAZING job, you deserve all the accolades and someday you might not even remember this!! ...because the sleep deprivation will have killed off your memory cells, but hey a win is a win!!

Good luck!
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amother
Daffodil


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:28 pm
https://health.clevelandclinic.....baby/

"There has been ample long-term research studying sleep training, and there is no evidence that sleep training is physically or psychologically damaging to babies and children. In fact, it’s been known to improve parental mood, improves an infant’s sleep quality and increases the secure attachment between babies and their caregivers. As long as your baby is old enough and is in a safe environment, sleep training (no matter which method you choose) is perfectly safe and healthy."

Curious what sources people are looking at that say sleep training is so traumatic and has such long-lasting effects.

My intuition says yes, it's hard to sleep alone for the first time and baby cries, but new things are often hard and take adjustment. Doesn't mean they're not worth learning.
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scintilla




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:33 pm
Also, if you are on instagram, check out highlysensitivefamily (might have a 'the' before it). She has an extremely balanced take on this, both from the perspective of a therapist and as a mother of two small children that had/have extremely challenging sleep stories. She doesn't demonize sleep training.
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amother
Ebony


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:42 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Mother's needs are also important.

Mothers are people too.

Do the sleep training and don't feel guilty.

An exhausted mother may not be a good mother.

It usually takes 4-5 nights.

If you sleep train you should feel guilty. Especially if you do Ferber or CIO. They are cruel methods.

Why are the infants needs ignored as Mom has needs? A mom needs to extend herself for baby. Not that baby needs to accommodate to mom.
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amother
Blushpink


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:42 pm
amother DarkCyan wrote:
It's age appropriate for a seven month old to sleep through the night. Stop the mom shaming. It is ok to sleep train at this point.


No its really not age appropriate.
OP, my baby didnt start sleeping through the night until she was 12 months.
Ferber rescinded many of his ideas when he published the ferber method.
CIO is dangerous and does not promote healthy bonding.

Im so sorry for the trauma you went through. I had something similar and Im still dealing with issues 2 years later. Please get yourself to pelvic PT asap as well as cranio therapy for your baby and of course a chiro. Where are you located? Maybe we can suggest someone good for you to go to
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amother
Ebony


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:44 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Who is to say sleep training is not properly caring?

there is much more evidence that sending babies to babysitters for many hours a day is,waaaaaaaaay more damaging than sleep training

Yet I bet you send your baby to a babysitter, Jade

Sleep training isn’t caring at all. It’s neglectful and cruel. What does sending to a babysitter have to do with this discussion? Two wrongs don’t make a right.
This poor baby who is colicky and went through a birth trauma, also goes to a sitter most likely, now had to also suffer through sleep training via the Ferber method? I feel sorry for this poor baby.
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