How do you raise normal boys?

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:05 pm

Hi all! This is somewhat of a rant but please bear with me and give me some advice. I have two boys (5 and 3) after several girls, and my older son started primary this year. He is a real boy, not mean but definitely likes being wild and making trouble. I feel like school is exposing him to more wild ideas and chutzpah, because he copies the other boys.

Just a few days ago, he decided to urinate on his bunk bed while two friends (girls) were sitting there, getting them wet as well. He just thought it would be funny....Now I am hearing that he isn't behaving in his carpool for school. Sad

He apparently spit at some kid, not sure what else is doing. I left a message for that mother to find out how bad it is, but haven't spoken to her yet.

Today, it was my turn to drive carpool for his school, and there are these two boys there (around 1st/2nd grade age), that have been behaving ok until recently, but I guess they are getting comfortable because their behavior has been declining steadily. Even when I tell them to buckle up, they will not, they will not listen to a thing I say, they stand up while I am driving, etc. When my husband drove a few weeks ago, they made fun of his accent, etc.

Another example....one night I was walking down the street and I saw boys (older boys this time, wearing black hats so at least 13), throwing cereal boxes under the wheels of a driving bus....That just blew my mind....like WHY? This would never occur to my girls this age!

Now, I am new to boys (don't have brothers either) but this doesn't sound normal to me. When I am home with my boys and there are no other kids around, they are definitely challenging, they can be wild, it's hard to take them to appointments and stuff, but not like this!

So here are the questions that I have:

1. Where does: "it's boys, it's normal!" end, and "this is not normal" begin? Where do you draw the line? I am starting to get the impression that many people simply write off boys' behavior as "boys being boys" because they don't know how (or don't want to bother) to discipline. So can you please tell me which things you look the other way for and which things you put your foot down?

2. So how do you discipline these wild boys? There are only so many times I can send him to his room or take away dessert, and I feel like it doesn't make an impression. Like, for example, how do I make sure he behaves in carpool, when I am not even there? How do I make consequences significant enough that he listens to me (the first time) without making our whole relationship negative? I have taken Rebbetzin Spetner's chinuch classes and will definitely review my notes, but I feel like I need help in applying it to boys, because it's a notch higher than the discipline that I am used to. And I know Rebbetzin Spetner always says that the main thing is they should learn to listen to Mommy, which I am having trouble enforcing here due to lack of creative and effective enough punishments...Today I tried to take away his video watching time in response to the urinating on the mattress incident, but his brother decided that he didn't want to watch without him, so it ended up not being a punishment at all. I feel like whatever I take away, he just thinks it's a joke.

Anyway, I would love to hear how other mothers address this and help their boys grow up into thoughtful and intelligent human beings. And how the mothers survive it with their sanity intact....all advice welcome.... Smile

TIA!

ima22

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:26 pm

Get out of Lakewood.... This is not acceptable in my neck of the woods b"H. Would have no tolerance for this attitude. If you cannot find like-minded parents and mechanchim, maybe you should question whether your values are aligned with the community you're living in. Derech eretz kadma l'Torah

momallhours

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:34 pm

Please explain how your son behaving wildly and acting highly inappropriate (urinating on girls??? that is beyond next level) has to do with LAKEWOOD????????? Can't Believe It

Get out of the blame game and take control of your parenting.

amother

Ginger

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:35 pm

Here's my disclaimer-I freely admit that I have one little boy and a houseful of girls bh so maybe I'm not fully understanding you.

Personally, the only thing I "punish" is hurting physically. That's an automatic go take a break in your room for 5 minutes.

Everything else, the only consequence is a look, a stern "no", maybe one line like we don't speak that way or no throwing or whatever it is. All very matter of fact., without drama.

You sound like a very good mother, very in tune with your kids. You're in a great place to step it up a bit with training your kids to listen to you, not to listen because they're threatened or don't want to lose out on something. In the long run, it will be a lot easier for you.

I've been there. I grew up in a house where yelling and hitting were the parenting methods used daily. I had tot work very hard to stop it but I'm happy to say that my daily life is so much easier now than it was when I was always yelling, coming up with more impactful consequences and enforcing them. It's much better this way.

I highly recommend the book Spare the Child by Rabbi Yechiel Yaakovson. It was life changing for me. It gave me real solid direction on parenting.

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:37 pm

Ima22 seriously?!?! I completely disagree with you! I have boys bh also after a bunch of girls and none of them behave the way you described your son's and friends do! They are respectful and sincere and know right from wrong. Don't blame where you live on your kids behavior!! I live in Lakewood and there are many respectful wonderful children who live near us too! It sounds like your child might benefit from an evaluation. None of his behaviors sound within the realm of normal! Urinating on another kid!! Seriously?!?! Never in a million years!! Please get help for him!

giftedmom

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:38 pm

Urination - def not okay. Huge red line.
Everything else, borderline. Here are some things I do.
1. I’m not into consequences, especially for boys, it turns everything into a power struggle and boys are competitive by nature, they fight to win. Once you punish all the time you are their adversary. As you yourself said it turns into a game.
2. Figure out what makes them tick. One of my boys comes home starving and acts nuts. The minute he eats he’s a diff person. Ditto for being tired, bored, offended etc.
3. Give them healthy ways to release energy. Especially now when the weather is nice try to get them outdoors as much as possible.
4. They will not tell you when they’re hurting. They will act out and start hitting and kicking. Sometimes you have to play detective.
5. You mentioned videos. Maybe some kids can handle videos but my boys absolutely can’t. It short circuits their brains and they go crazy. Videos are only allowed on no-school days or under special circumstances.

amother

Sand

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:38 pm

Sounds like my son who has adhd and very poor impulse control. It's not easy at all.

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:39 pm

How is this on Lakewood? Your son has a problem.

I don’t know what I’d do if my son peed on girls - I would need to quickly put him in time out and run to call someone to freak out and scream to because that would be so unbelievably triggering to see. It’s an abusive, demeaning, disturbing thing to do. Please seek help.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:40 pm

Urinating in front of others and on others is completely across the line and needs a serious repercussion.

A thirteen year old boy throwing cereal boxes under a bus is very immature and if it was my son ( which it was not) I would make him clean up every last crumb.

Boys standing in my carpool or not buckling when I ask them to would not be tolerated . They’d be given three warnings max and then the mother would be warned that if it continues I cannot drive her son.

Boys will test limits. You need to be calm and firm. And consequences should be “natural” or make sense . For example, if you act like a 2 year old by purposely urinating on your bed in front of others then you will be treated like a 2 year old and go to sleep at 6:30 this week. If you do not behave in carpool then you will walk, etc.

I live in Lakewood area btw.

amother

Lemonlime

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:45 pm

ima22 wrote:

What does this have to do with Lakewood?!?
How dare you malign an entire city because someone has a child who clearly has behavioral issues that are out of th realm of normal?!?

amother

Hibiscus

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:49 pm

Urinating on people is already not normal. Please don't dismiss that as normal boy behavior. I have 4 boys and if anyone of them did that he'd clean up the mess himself.

Misbehaving in carpool- he cannot join carpool anymore. The end.

CPenzias

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:49 pm

Can you give the child consequences for actions? You peed on the mattress, strip the beds and put the sheets in the laundry. Put new sheets on bed?
Kid standing in car, pull over and tell them to sit or you're not moving. If they do it again pull over again. Let their parents know and tell them one more chance or you're not carpooling.
Making fun of your husbands accent? That's disgusting and rude. I would probably be sarcastic and ask if this is how they teach them to behave in Yeshiva and that his mom must be proud.
How old are these kids?

amother

Banana

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:50 pm

This has zero to do with Lakewood. This sounds insane. You sound like a great mom and really trying to get it everything under control.
I live in Lakewood and I drove my son plenty of times to school and him and his friends act respectful. They don’t necessarily buckle when I tell them too but they are never chutzpadik. And the urinating? I never heard of such a thing!!

amother

Lemonlime

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:50 pm

Op - I have 4 boys bli ayin hara and yes I LIVE IN LAKEWOOD.
I’ve never had such behavior in any of my kids.
I’ve never seen this behavior in any of my relatives and/or neighbor’s kids.
Urinating on other kids? That’s a bit over the top.
Your child may need an evaluation for ADHD or some other behavioral issue, and/or he may simply have been exposed to too much bad behavior in your carpool, from neighbors or friends, etc.
You need to figure it out and possibly get him evaluated, if warranted.
Perhaps you and DH could go for some parenting classes/guidance to learn helpful responses that would perhaps mitigate this behavior as opposed to exacerbating it.
This has nothing to do with Lakewood, though.

amother

Khaki

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:52 pm

My first thought is your child possibly being abused or bullied?

amother

Denim

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 10:53 pm

I have 3 boys , live in Lakewood and see lots of boys around. the urinating on girls is not ok. u need to deal with that. something sounds off.. not sure what lakewood has to do with it ?

amother

Puce

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 11:08 pm

I don’t live in Lakewood but in another frum town with an overflow of frum kids on the street.

Today I sat out with my toddler and observed the boys. There are some kids that are into destroying, tearing up packages, throwing stuff at passing cars and I even heard a kid dare another to pull down his pants.

Then there are other kids who are respectful, polite and still spirited and fun.

My observation was that the ‘crazy’ kids were from homes where the parents are not attentive. Either working too much, too many kids, other life issues. The main thing was that these parents were letting their kids out and leaving the street to raise them.

“Just go out and come back in time for bed”. These parents are too busy, preoccupied or don’t care where their kids are all the time, or what they’re up to. Being in a crowded place, enables these unattended kids to get into trouble.

I’m not saying this is happening with your son, I’m commenting on what I see in the community streets. There are parents that are literally letting their kids out into the streets to raise themselves. Others are actually parenting and accountable for their kids at all hours of the day.

nelliesmellie

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 11:10 pm

Everyone is getting stuck on the urination because it’s a screaming red flag. The rest really can’t be addressed until this is. I never heard of a child doing such a thing, please seek professional guidance from a reputable psychologist as to what evaluations he needs.

giftedmom

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 11:14 pm

amother Puce wrote:

Is your toddler your oldest ?

amother

Cyan

Sun, Apr 16 2023, 11:15 pm

I don't live in Lakewood.
But I am a mother of kah 6 very leibedige boys after 3 very girls girls.

It seems to me that some of this is a boy trying to find his place in a girly situation. You could possibly help him by finding him an older brother figure who can give him some boy attention when he needs it. If your husband is around he can do this as well. Do physical activities, some roughhousing etc.

A really boyish boy plays very differently to girls. Growing up in a girly household plus having friends to play who are girls might leave him feeling very awkward, physical and aggressive. In a boy household he'd likely just slot into the boy energy around.

Does he have space to be a real boy without being criticized? If he runs, throws things, shouts, is he being screamed at?

The discipline does need looking at but I would first make sure his needs are being met.