S/o what if not everyone is cut out for motherhood?

amother

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:14 pm

People always start saying trauma and whatnot when someone says that they don't have the patience for motherhood.

What if there really are people that simply aren't cut out for it? They can contribute to society they can do wonderful things but raising children isn't something they can do without feeling very resentful and like they're ruining their kids? And maybe it's not a pathology?

Everyone says the mitzvah is for the man so why can't women choose not to have kids?

amother

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:18 pm

amother Viola wrote:

I think it's clear that some people are not cut out for motherhood, and even more people are not cut out to mother many children at a time.

But everyone is quick to point out how it's due to trauma and because their husband isn't helpful enough etc. Sometimes that's the case but maybe there really are people that just aren't made for it? They don't find joy in it, they don't see the reason and if they feel forced to do it then who benefits?

amother

Mayflower

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:20 pm

amother OP wrote:

I mean it's the type of thing that's kind of hard to know whether you'll regret not doing it until it's too late.

amother

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:21 pm

amother Mayflower wrote:

I mean it's the type of thing that's kind of hard to know whether you'll regret not doing it until it's too late.

That's true. But that's only because it's the expected thing to do and people don't consciously think about it as a choice they are making.

amother

Mint

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:33 pm

I think the answer is that we’re biologically wired to procreate and so it’s assumed that most of us have a maternal quality or instinct, if it hasn’t been clouded over via upbringing and other environmental influences. Don’t throw tomatoes. Obviously one can’t generalize about literally every single person, there will always be a spectrum of what’s “natural.” But I think that’s where the assumption comes from.

amother

Oak

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:35 pm

thepickled wrote:

Good point.
I also feel that most women want to have at least one or two and can easily handle that emotionally.
I think the peer pressure to have large families is what’s making us think all or nothing!

amother

Viola

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:36 pm

amother Mint wrote:

We're not biologically wired to have children more often than every 3 years. It's unnatural.

amother

Mayflower

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

That's true. But that's only because it's the expected thing to do and people don't consciously think about it as a choice they are making.

No, it's because people are wired to want to have continuity and leave someone on this earth after them.

amother

Yellow

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:47 pm

amother OP wrote:

In the non-Jewish world, millions of people realize they are not cut our for having children or decide, for whatever reason, not to have any. It's fully accepted.

In our religious world, it's not accepted at all. And that's because it is literally the #1 thing people were created to do. Literally.

Halachically, a woman CAN choose not to have children.... but everyone will guilt her, shame her, look down upon her. However, in such a case, she should not marry. She can't marry a man who is obligated to have children and make him barren. That's halachically wrong.

But, nowadays there's an out. Now, due to the shidduch crisis, there are lots of single women. A girl who doesn't want to marry and have children can easily avoid it by blending in with the many single women.

sushilover

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:54 pm

It depends on what you mean by not being cut out for it.
If someone is dealing with trauma or a physical, mental, or emotional disability, then I think it's obvious that not everyone should be a mother.

But if it's just about motherhood being difficult, or not having the mothering "instinct", then I don't think encouraging such thinking will have good repercussions. All good things in life are difficult and motherhood is not supposed to be instinctual. Cutting yourself off of the most rewarding thing on earth because you are an introvert or you dislike crying babies... not a good idea. There are so many other solutions that don't involve childlessness.

I love that we have a culture of parenting classes, books, speeches, and always working on ourselves, but I wonder if the downside is that we end up thinking that motherhood has to look a very specific way and that we are not cut out for it unless we are perfect.

amother

Mintcream

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 9:58 pm

Mothering (and marriage) is an opportunity to work on your middos. It requires you to get out of your comfort zone (from conception…)
It’s not easy. You will work on your patience, empathy….
You will become a better person.

zaq

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 10:03 pm

There are people who should not be parents and people who should not marry, but it's usually hard to know who they are till it's too late.

OTOH many of us, laden with unrealistic expectations of parenthood, fueled by fairy tales, women's magazines and kallah classes, aim for "perfect" and decide we're failures when we achieve only "functional." We should be aiming for "functional" and rejoicing when we achieve "functional...more or less." Certainly when we have young children.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Apr 27 2023, 11:05 pm

I'm the OP of the other thread.
I don't necessarily think my issue is trauma, and my husband carries the burden of most household duties along with me, as well as the childcare. So I agree that those aren't the only factors that would make someone not cut out for it.
I also think that barring true mental illness/addiction/abuse that would make one unfit to be a parent by everyone's standards, once you birth a child you naturally love them and take joy in the easy, calm moments. But that's easy and doesn't mean that you're fit for motherhood.
What I meant by not being cut out for motherhood is in the everyday grind, not being able to handle the reality that it's hard and not having the patience for my children being regular children and not enjoying them and meeting them where they are at. I'd say that means that I'm not cut out for it, or at least that I'm really not good at it.
OTOH, sushilover and zaq make a good point that maybe we have this vision that motherhood is supposed to follow one specific script, and if we don't sit down and play and bake and have DMCs with our kids on the daily, we are ruining them for life.

amother

Peachpuff

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 2:17 am

amother Lemon wrote:

\

I have heard someone saying that they didn't like having kids when they were small, but when the kids grew up and they could have more intellectual conversations, they started enjoying it.

It could be that's the case for some.

Trademark

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 11:56 am

amother Yellow wrote:

This is a minority of women (and men) in the western world. In the rest of the world and most of western women still want and have children.

I've also read so many women complaining that they get comments about not having children and parents asking for grandchildren. In some specific circles it may be the case that it's fully accepted.

amother

Snowflake

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 2:24 pm

amother Viola wrote:

We're not biologically wired to have children more often than every 3 years. It's unnatural.

2 years 9 months. Because you’re supposed to nurse for 2 years.

Also we are wired to raise our kids as part of an extended family but for most of us that tends not to happen either.

amother

Pearl

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 2:29 pm

amother Viola wrote:

We're not biologically wired to have children more often than every 3 years. It's unnatural.

Lol, biologically women have babies even 12 months apart. It may not be good for them physically, mentally and emotionally, but don’t use the biology argument.