S/o what if not everyone is cut out for motherhood?

amother

Whitewash

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 8:01 am

amother OP wrote:

People always start saying trauma and whatnot when someone says that they don't have the patience for motherhood.

What if there really are people that simply aren't cut out for it? They can contribute to society they can do wonderful things but raising children isn't something they can do without feeling very resentful and like they're ruining their kids? And maybe it's not a pathology?

Everyone says the mitzvah is for the man so why can't women choose not to have kids?

Ok, I’ll bite.

I am absolutely not cut out for motherhood. Everyday I do a job that I fail in. If motherhood was paid employment, I would quit and find a more suitable role. Unfortunately for all, I am not able to quit.

I am a BT, and before being frum, never wanted kids. I don’t coo over babies, never have. I was happy not being a parent. I was in a relationship once with someone who had the same goal as me to not be a parent. In the secular world, this is OK for some.

When I became frum, it was obvious that I wasn’t fully accepted as a BT single. My DH isn’t cut out for marriage/parenthood either but also felt obligated to go that route.

So yes, there are really some people not cut out for parenthood.

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 8:46 am

amother Milk wrote:

My mom was definitely not cut out to be a mother. She is way too selfish, and can't even contemplate putting a child's best interest first. However, she has no self-awareness, and if you were to ask her, she'd say she IS cut out for motherhood because she likes cuddling with babies and small children and having them love her, and walking with them in public qnd having people smile at her 🙄

On the opposite side of my mother, I believe there are some pretty good mothers who are hyper-aware of their every little flaw and feel disproportionately guilty, and think they are NOT cut out for motherhood, when really they are doing a good job by their children, and their children (even when grown up) would say they were a good mother.

Wow, I'm wondering which of these 2 categories I fall into. How would I know?

charm

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 8:56 am

I am an older woman who struggled her way thru bringing up a large family.. I felt like I was in a tunnel with no light at the end of it but now I am reaping the benefits I thank H again and again and feel so blessed to have such good kids and fabulous grandkids. I thought H was punishing me each time I felt pregnant and now I see He was throwing kindness at me. I am not suggesting for one moment that women should not help themselves if they feel they are not coping .. of course they should make every effort to protect their physical and mental health I did try but was very fertile and 30 years ago birth control was much more basic and the rabbonim not so aware . so I kept falling pregnant but now I am so so glad!!!!! btw I used lots of birth control if not I would have had 22 children got married really young .....btw I am not a fanatic just seeing things from an older womans perpective of this struggle

amother

Snowflake

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 9:49 am

ora_43 wrote:

Nursing isn't exactly foolproof birth control. The number of people I know who got pregnant 3-6 months after birth, fully nursing on demand... Let alone when the kid is 9 months or 15 months and eating solid foods.

Let's not pathologize any age gap, hmm? It's perfectly alright to say that a 3-year age gap is natural for many people, without calling closer age gaps "unnatural".

You’ve misunderstood her point. Historically, women naturally had kids spaced approximately 3 years apart. There was no formula and young babies didn’t eat solid foods. For a variety of reasons fertility usually returns much sooner nowadays. But there is evidence to support that this is unnatural. Similar to the lower average age of puberty.

amother

Milk

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 9:50 am

amother Cobalt wrote:

Wow, I'm wondering which of these 2 categories I fall into. How would I know?

Ideally, most people fall somewhere in the middle: they are aware of their flaws and try to work on improvement in those areas, but don't spend too much time feeling guilty about being human.

If you think that of course you are a wonderful mother, then you may be the 1st category, may be a wonderful mother, or may be an ok-but-not-wonderful mother who overestimates herself.

If you feel guilty all the time and fear you aren't cut out for motherhood, you may be the 2nd category, may really be a bad mother but at least who is self-aware, or may be an okay mother who underestimates herself.

amother

Snowflake

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 9:50 am

amother Tangerine wrote:

Our bodies are designed to have children. To me, that’s a logical sign that we are supposed to hold and have a child as part of our life stages. Imagine someone saying even though I have working feet, I’m just not cut out for walking.

What if someone doesn’t have working feet? I do think some people have a disability that makes them unfit for motherhood. Look at some recent news stories.

honey36

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 9:58 am

I'm also more of an introvert, I like alone time, especially with a house full of kids. I often crave peace and quiet. I used to be resentful of being a mother just because of this.

That said, I realized a while ago, I would not have it any other way. Yes, life gets hectic and loud at times and it can be hard, but even though I like being alone, I wouldn't be able to handle always being alone.

That's why I don't understand this culture of being child free. People are not meant to be alone. Even with a spouse, it can get lonely with just the two of you no? To come home to a quiet house every single day? Are people really cut out for that?

sushilover

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 10:04 am

amother Whitewash wrote:

I'm so sorry you are dealing with such strong and real emotions. In what way are you failing every day? Is there a reason behind your failures?

(I will assume that you are not dealing with trauma or any kind of disability for the rest of my post. If you are, that's beyond my scope of knowledge so please ignore me.)

Of course you were happy not being a parent. That's OK. But the most meaningful and worthwhile things in life don't necessarily make us happy in the moment.

I am currently going to physical therapy. I was happy not going. I don't love it and I feel like it's pushing me to do all the things that I'm so bad at. It's especially difficult to hear from people who say that physical exercise leaves them on a high, gives them energy,
or improves their mood. That makes me feel like there is something wrong with me for feeling the opposite.

If I really felt that I'm giving up, I would hope that I would go to therapy to address my issues so that I would do what is uncomfortable even without enjoying it in the moment.

amother

Narcissus

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 10:05 am

amother Seashell wrote:

I believe that woman that feel that they aren't cut out to be mothers are really not cut out to- getting married at a young age, taking on all adult responsibilities, adjusting to living with a guy after a life of being sheltered from the other gender, adjusting to handling finances and jobs, adjusting to running home AND becoming a pregnant woman and mom multiple times in a very short time -ALL AT ONCE.
Once you slow things down a bit and deal with any emotional baggage that comes up as you go along, I believe most of the woman that feel that they are not cut out for motherhood will feel differently.
I posted a thread by the same title around 8 years ago. Today, after claiming my voice and slowing things down I LOVE BEING A MOM.

THIS! Thank you for saying this - we overlook what we ask of our young women at the tender age of 18-25, and when there are issues, we blame trauma or mental health instead of looking at our societal setup.

Also to add that some women may not be ready to be a mother at 20, but that can very well change when they're 30. Pushing everyone to do and behave exactly like what everyone else is doing, is what creates a host of problems. To me, this 'one size fits all approach' is one of the largest underlying root cause of problems within our communities.

amother

Catmint

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 10:07 am

amother OP wrote:

Every Jewish man is obligated to learn Torah and to refrain from bitul Torah.
Same thing.
What if some men aren’t cut out for it?
They’re still obligated, to learn absolutely as much as they can.

I don’t see a difference.
The mindset that we are here in this world only to enjoy ourselves and live it up isn’t a Jewish one.
We are here to accomplish and in Judaism having children and learning Torah are the primary and greatest accomplishments.
Are there other accomplishments? Yes.
Can one be kovea itim? Yes.

But these two things are the greatest goals in עולם העשיה, in this world of doing.
Signed,
A woman who spent two decades raising children and building a successful business and is much more cut out for business but looks back at raising children as the bigger accomplishment, even though it has not been easy.

amother

White

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 10:13 am

charm wrote:

Thank you for writing this, I think many people need to hear this .

amother

Narcissus

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 10:20 am

amother Catmint wrote:

Difference #1: Women aren't obligated to have children. It's a biologically natural instinct for most. What happens if a woman's natural instinct doesn't kick in till she's 30, and she's not ready for children at 20? Must she cave to the expectation to have children at 20, just because society decided that everyone must do that?

Difference #2. You can't compare Torah learning to having children. Torah learning can be flexible, where men do more or less at certain times of their lives. Once a woman has children, she is always on. There is no flexibility. She must always be fully present for her children, and can't just be less involved with her children.

Difference #3. With Torah learning, you can change up what you're learning and choose different topics that work better for you at the moment. You can't change up your children. You must deal with who they are, and work with their strengths and weaknesses at all times. You don't get to choose what you need to work with.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 10:27 am

[quote="amother Snowflake"]What if someone doesn’t have working feet? I do think some people have a disability that makes them unfit for motherhood. Look at some recent news stories.[/quote

This post doesn’t sound like the person is disabled. There’s a difference between being disabled and really incapable of doing something and merely not being confident in one’s ability to parent. Another idea for a mother who thinks she can’t handle the full load of parenting is to get some help. One doesn’t have to do everything alone.

ora_43

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 10:38 am

amother Snowflake wrote:

That's what I understood her as saying. And I don't agree with it.

When food is scarce, a lot of women will have pregnancies spaced further apart (and will miscarry more pregnancies). When food is plentiful, plenty of women have closer pregnancies and more pregnancies that go to term. Both are perfectly natural.

Similarly there is no one version of "historically." In different times and places women married at different ages, child mortality varied wildly, and total fertility rates varied wildly. In every time and place there were women who struggled to get pregnant and women who had 10, 15 kids or more.

amother

Ghostwhite

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 10:39 am

amother Snowflake wrote:

What if someone doesn’t have working feet? I do think some people have a disability that makes them unfit for motherhood. Look at some recent news stories.

When one breaks a leg, or even has a disability, they'll spare no effort in repairing the leg so they can walk again or do therapy to be able to walk with assistance.
Part of nature is to bear children, and part of mother nature is to want children, and to love our children. I do believe it's trauma that gets in the way, and its up to us to try our best to heal.

amother

Pink

Sun, Apr 30 2023, 10:43 am

amother Catmint wrote:

I mean one kind of depends on the day, and the other is kind of a lifelong commitment where there’s no going back. So….