At what age do you start enforcing things (halacha)?

amother

Sun, May 07 2023, 9:23 am

Like waiting 6 hours after eating meat or not listening to music during sefira, making brachos before eating, muktza etc… we always talk about doing it but dc has a hard time listening and doing it. Trying to figure out at what age we should be strict about it…

mushkamothers

Sun, May 07 2023, 9:27 am

Those are not all the same things. Don't confuse halacha (milk and meat) with drabanan (brochos) with minhag (sefira).
And ofc you didn't say how old your child is. Which also makes a difference.

Milk and meat, once my child had a sense of time and was able to tell time and was telling ME how many hours ago he ate lunch (he was about 5). Muktza some things you can pretend you don't see or hear especially for a younger kid. Brochos before food you model and encourage. Music during sefira is literally the last thing I'd focus on, like that's teen level.

Most importantly is whether you're creating a restrictive religious environment. Kids don't have to do anything before bar/bas mitzvah. What do you gain from forcing a preschooler to make a bracha or they don't get their snack?

Highstrung

Sun, May 07 2023, 9:28 am

My daughter is 4 1/2 . She started asking me about whether she is allowed to or not. She learned a lot in school. But I don’t pressure her. If she’s not ready , it will come with time. I think age 5 is considered the age of chinuch. But I have never “enforced” anything. It comes naturally with age , maturity and understanding.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, May 07 2023, 9:31 am

It's really to each their own.
By around age 7-8 I start giving gentle reminders. I wd never outright enforce but I would remind for ex: If they forgot tmk a bracha I say: Shaindy, I'd love to answer Amen. Next time can you try to say the bracha a bit louder pls?
I wd not mention that she forgot, I want her to know I assume she did make it, I just didn't hear it.

amother

Sun, May 07 2023, 9:38 am

Sign. Dh just yelled and theatened ds not even 5 yet because he was listening to music. hes very musical and it’s been really long. I was pretending I didn’t realize but came in to dh yelling at it for not turning it off.

amother

Sun, May 07 2023, 9:50 am

To add to the question- what if your child asked you to put on music for him during sefira. Would you say something about it being sefira or just put it on? He knows about sefira and not listening to music.

amother

Bronze

Sun, May 07 2023, 9:56 am

6 is the earliest age of chinuch, according to Rav Ovadia Yosef. Before then, you can model, but a child before 6 doesn't need to be doing anything.

amother

Daisy

Sun, May 07 2023, 9:56 am

amother OP wrote:

I would not put music on

groisamomma

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:00 am

OP, call the Bais Horaah or ask your rav/dayan. When dd was six she wanted yogurt after a fleishig supper and I told her no because it's not 6 hours yet. She said, "Call the Bais Horaah!" And guess what? The rav said it was fine. His rule of thumb is that you start at age 6 and by age 9 the child should be able to wait the full six hours.
Re: sefira, same dd is all grown up and can't fall asleep without music. She called the Bais Horaah when she was 12 and got a heter. In fact, when she said it's our minhag to keep the whole thing the rav kindly offered to speak to dh and dh hung up the phone very satisfied.

If a rav says it's okay your dh will most likely be on board. Ask.

Highstrung

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:07 am

amother OP wrote:

I would tell him we could listen to acapella if he’d like. Or he can listen to a story on audio.

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:07 am

Different things, different ages. My son is 7 and stopped carrying on shabbos this year. Last year he only carried in pockets . Both of these steps were done with encouragement, no forcing . For milk and meat he waits a few hours . Sometimes if it’s only one hour and he really wants it I will encourage him to wait longer but he makes his decision own decision. I would never force anything . It will back fire .

Highstrung

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:08 am

groisamomma wrote:

Yes. I have encouraged my children to ask our rav . One of my teens needs music to deal with his job and the other teen was desperate for a haircut . Our rav gave a heter to both based on their specific needs.

#BestBubby

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:09 am

I said brochos with kids starting at 3.

Waiting 30 minutes after flaishigs at 2.

By 4, Waiting 6 hours.

Put muktza toys away before shobbos.

At 3 I would gently say Muktzah, don't touch.

behappy2

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:10 am

It's not so much about age but maturity. Mostly encourage, encourage, encourage. I don't think I "enforce" at any age. I just explain. Mostly model and make yiddishkeit happy. But I wouldn't turn on music because then I'm listening and that's bad modeling. When my son was little I would say "when you are going to be big then you're not going to do this or that. So it prepared his mind and he didn't feel that he was a bad kid. He understood that he's just young. I think it's important that kids grow up not feeling like a Rasha. When they believe they are good they become good.

gottago

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:13 am

Are you asking at what age yelling and threatening is appropriate?
I think all agree (probably including your husband) that the answer is never. You might want to have a conversation about deracheha darchei noam..Noam...

If your five year old should be listening to music during sefira or not is a question for your personal rav.

Highstrung

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:13 am

amother OP wrote:

This type of reaction usually causes the opposite effect. It pushes children away from religion. Ask your DH to speak to a rav to discuss it.

amother

Slateblue

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:14 am

groisamomma wrote:

It also depends on the child. My 9 yo only started really waiting 6 hours at around 8. She just wasn't ready. Ironically she's super mature in many areas. This one was VERY difficult for her. (Ahdh) So unless she's turning 12 I decided not to push it. We make parve chulent partly becuase off this. So it takes away to yetzer harah on long shabbos afternoons when she wants ice cream....
My 3 yo son, has no problem waiting. He'll ask me "is it 6 hours yet" and I'll say yes or no. If there aren't any other kids around to tell him otherwise after about 3 hours it feels long enough to him I'll tell him you can have milchigs again.

Re sefirah music, or if he's tired or cranky I'll put on music. Its an instant mood lift. He's very into "my rebbe said your not allowed to" so I'll blame it on the baby (1yo) reallllly wanting it. And babies are allowed. Then he just has a whole dance session all by himself....
It's just minhag.

My 8 yo's bangs grew extremely fast. They are practically in her eyes. They really bother her. I was told I'm allowed to cut it but she didn't want to. She felt funny coming tonschool one day w long and one day w short bangs. So she's sticking it out.
Re muktzah, as a mother it is your responsibility to put all muktzah stuff out of reach every week before shabbos. Once they are old enough to have good self control its not issue anymore.
But you can't expect a 3 yo to refrain from riding his favorite bike if the wheels have lights that turn on while riding. (We don't buy such bikes or scooters for this reason) all cars that "sing" are put away in a muktzah closet. All muktzah books (that have narration or singing) and smaller electric toys in a special bin on top of the toy closet. They should not have access to temptation.

#BestBubby

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:19 am

There is a story about a wealthy man, complaining to a Rabbi that his sons were not strong in their feelings for yiddishkeit.

The rabbi was the rich man's shobbos guest.

On motzei shobbos when leaving he told the rich man why his sons yiddishkeit was weak

When your sons touched muktzah you gently said

Muktah, please dont touch.

But when your sons picked up expensive crystal

You SCREAMED

PUT THAT DOWN, ITS VERY EXPENSIVE!

So your sons learned from you what is really
Important ($$$) and what is not (yiddishkeit).

You should react the same as if your child was touching fire, Danger!

amother

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:22 am

I told dh to ask rav. Hope he will.

giftedmom

Sun, May 07 2023, 10:33 am

I generally don’t enforce. It happens organically. They learn it in school/cheder, we discuss it at home, they see their older siblings doing it, and they start doing it themselves when they’re ready. I would not put music on when it’s sefira though as that’s asking me to do something.