The most universally loathed Jewish gathering- the Vort

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Forum -> Relationships -> Simcha Section

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amother

Sun, May 21 2023, 6:23 pm

Rabbi Wachsman
https://www.torahanytime.com/#.....36064

GLUE

Sun, May 21 2023, 8:31 pm

It was not about Vorts but about the insane spending on weddings.

I don't think it's the people who have who have to lead the way but the people who don't have the money, have to start.

I have found that many people with money have no problem on not spending it. It's the people who don't have money that need to upgrade. Is it because they are getting some or most of it sponsored?

A women who runs a linen store was telling my mother when my mother went to buy for her first Kallah that the it's not the rich who buy the brand name expensive linen that is expensive because of the name, it's the ones that are getting the Kallah help. I could go on about this topic.

Yes, I think Vorts are a wast of money.

nightingale1

Sun, May 21 2023, 8:36 pm

I didn’t listen to the shiur but this title upsets me. There are still some of us in this world that enjoy simchas, when a couple gets engaged that’s a huge simcha! Most of the time I am genuinely happy to go and participate. I have some very wealthy relatives, and some the complete opposite, tiny in-house vort with homemade baked goods. Doesn’t matter, it’s the simcha that matters.

amother

Skyblue

Sun, May 21 2023, 8:44 pm

GLUE wrote:

Maybe they feel like their kids were missing out on things for years because of poverty so they want to make it up to them at their weddings?

I feel like vorts should go back to the way they used to be, in someone's living room with a few plates of cake. It doesn't need to be a catered party-planned simcha.

Genius

Sun, May 21 2023, 8:47 pm

I agree with nightingale. Simchas are beautiful! If only people spent within their means.

amother

Ballota

Sun, May 21 2023, 8:51 pm

GLUE wrote:

It's the people who don't have money that need to upgrade.

Yes! I feel like shouting this from the rooftops!

People who have a need to show-off, regardless of economical status...

Somehow, the rising standards are always being blamed on the well-off...

amother

Sun, May 21 2023, 8:54 pm

nightingale1 wrote:

That’s the point of the shiur. Put out some cake for a vort. Don’t put societal pressure to borrow or beg and spend thousands on a vort followed by thousands on the wedding followed by thousands on shabbos sheva brachos, foisting a budget appropriate only for the wealthy few on the masses of middle and lower class of our communities.

nightingale1

Sun, May 21 2023, 9:11 pm

amother OP wrote:

Who is it “loathed” by? The parents or the guests? I don’t like “loathed” and “vort” in the same sentence.

amother

Hunter

Sun, May 21 2023, 9:36 pm

I spent under $500 on our vort.

$100 seltzer and soda

$80 a couple of melons

$90 variety of cookies from the bakery

$120 clear plastic 6” plates and square mousse cups for the melons, forks, and cups. And I still have leftover paper goods months later!

I borrowed fake flowers and trays from a friend. I’m a newborn photographer and have lots of fabric which I draped artfully around. Everyone asked who my party planner was!

And we schedule it from 2-4 so nobody would expect lunch. I took chicken and kugel out of the freezer and microwaved it for the 10 out of town guests at the end.

GLUE

Sun, May 21 2023, 10:27 pm

amother Skyblue wrote:

Maybe they feel like their kids were missing out on things for years because of poverty so they want to make it up to them at their weddings?

I find that many of the people who need to upgrade for their kids wedding are the ones that brought the few hundred $$ backpacks, coats, the latest fad.
They are the ones who cry why are you buying your kid an(fill in the blank)don't you know it cost so much how could you raise the stranded on the block\neighborhood.

The people who tell there kid you want(fill in the blank) go daven, win it in a raffle, work for it or give it to there kid a special prize. Are not the ones that have kids that need upgrades at a wedding.

amother

Steelblue

Sun, May 21 2023, 10:29 pm

I realize that it’s really true of people say that people who have money don’t feel the need to show off We are quite comfortable. We did some thing in our backyard. Super simple. A friend of mine could not understand how I was not getting any of it catered and I wasn’t ordering even one cake or cookie. Nobody delivered flowers before which I was told is of course, expected. So many people told me how nice it was and how they enjoyed because it was so simple. I really hope it was her and example for others. I choose what to spend my money on, and I did not think that was necessary. I could’ve had it catered if I wanted to, but I said no need when I can do it all myself with our kids helping. The other side helped as well. And the wedding is also going to be probably a lot simpler than most people. Both sides could afford real flowers to decorate and it’s about $2000. Just letting you know that we’re in Israel but that prices in dollars. But we’re really not sure it’s worth spending the money on. Just because you have money for something doesn’t mean you need to spend it. Just for reference no we did always have money but even when we didn’t, we made simple Simcha’s in our home. So really, nothing changed from that perspective.

GLUE

Sun, May 21 2023, 10:44 pm

Why do I hate Vorts?

I hated getting dressed up for about 5 minutes, the big problem with Vorts is getting all dressed up then leaving.
A few years ago I realized some thing nobody cares what you are wearing they just want you to come. So I stopped dressing up and just came in what ever I was wearing and going to Vorts was not so terrible.

I am trying to understand were people are spending money on Vorts? Years ago you would go to a Vort and there was lots and lots of food. Now Vorts are becoming like the Sholem Zachers of Oar, were you wore not allowed to take food. Is it only the crowd I hang out with? Every Vort I go to it seems like there are less food put out then the last one. It's like a contest on who could put out the lest amount of food.

If people are spending $1,000's on the Vort what are they spending it on? Defiantly not food.

amother

Hydrangea

Mon, May 22 2023, 3:42 am

Everything became a show, and if you eat it's a sin. You have to get dressed up in the latest outfit with a nice long sheitel for a five minute mazel tov that nobody really cares about for what purpose? Everything from a Kiddush to a wedding has gotten out of hand.

I want to make my daughters wedding in our shul or a nice backyard, I actually mentioned this before COVID and people think I am off my rocker. But honestly what is the point of spending thousands of dollars I'd rather give the money to my child so they can purchase a home or have money for their kids then spend it on a fancy night that nobody will remember eating at the next day.

amother

Peru

Mon, May 22 2023, 3:51 am

We made a big vort for my first. Well..my in laws made it, and I showed up. I think if I had to make a vort, it would be in my house.

amother

Mint

Mon, May 22 2023, 4:03 am

This is a tough one. The families are happy and they want an event to celebrate before the actual wedding that includes people who are excited for them. I get that. For my dd's vort, I did all of the cooking and ordered sushi and cake. Bought flowers from Costco and arranged them myself. Put a tent in my backyard to fit more people. It was very homemade, but also very nice for the occasion. Could we have had a few cakes and some schnaps the way it was done in my parents day or the simple in home party that I had? For sure. I personally like the open house idea with a small guest list but even that puts financial pressure on a family. As for the getting all dressed up thing for a short visit, I get that, too. Not sure how to assess that except to say that it's important to come out to celebrate other people, as I'm sure you hope they will come out for your simchas.

watergirl

Mon, May 22 2023, 4:42 am

GLUE wrote:

The thing that stood out to me the most about your post is that the linen store lady was gossiping about other customers. Instead of being happy that people finally have the ability to treat themselves to something like that, she gossips about them? It’s humiliating enough to have to use tzedakka coupons, now, people should worry they are being talked about after they leave the store?

amother

Gladiolus

Mon, May 22 2023, 5:19 am

I listened to the whole thing. Its just talking about the irresponsible and prohibitive cost of making simchas and the fact that more and more simchas are being created and added as essential to make a whole over the top thing out of ( he gave voch nocht I think as an example), instead of keeping things low key non events, even kiddush at shul on shabbos. And if the other side of a wedding asks to make it simpler, agree.
He asked that those who have, and the communities know they have, should get in a trend to simplify their simchas, because everyone else is embarrassed to be the person to lower the standards. He said something like if 35 ashirim in a community sign up for the project together that they will keep things simple, its enough of a momentum to shift things, gives permission for regular people to join. He said things aren't sustainable nor responsible the way they are as a community to help fundraise for these standards going forward. Keeps all of us a slave to gashmius and valuing too high materialism, we can and should spend on mitzvos not making sure the shabbos kiddush has hot pastrami or something when we have a full meal waiting at home. I think he implied that we didn't learn from covid times to simplify.
I thought it was a beautiful message and reminder personally. I think it would be beautiful thing for ashirim to do, and even not so ashirim to trend towards living below your means. His reminder for the klal to move more to ruchniyos and shun gashmius.
I am happy you posted op and it's something that speaks to me, I am happy to be reminded of.

watergirl

Mon, May 22 2023, 5:19 am

I just listened to this 17 minute shiur, which is clearly a snip from a larger shiur.

I'm so sad that what was clearly meant to be something important and meaningful came to this thread and people who clearly did not listen to it are coming here and finger pointing to those who don't have money. That should not have been anyone's takeaway. That was not at all what the shiur was about.

I really suggest everyone listen to this, if they live in a community where people make large simchas. BH where I live, vorts are more along the lines of what Rabbi Wachsman is talking about - if you must have a vort, have a few plates of cake. The very fancy vorts I've been to have some salads and fruit - but it's all brought by friends and never catered. I can not relate at all to the comments on this thread or what he is talking about with catered vacht nachts, shalom zachars, etc.

He is making the argument for more simple simchas. But the argument goes in circles because those with money like to counter with, "I made my money in a yashar way, I can spend it and enjoy it the way I want", which is true! And it's those who make lavish simchas that also give tzedakkah lavishly.

But Rabbi Wachsman also makes an important argument - he addresses the subgroup who are desperate to make the same lavish simchas way beyond their means, and to live beyond their means, they go astray and give in to temptation to do illegal things to get the money.

What he DID NOT talk to is collecting tzedakkah for those who can't make a simcha.

I think this was very important and everyone should listen.

watergirl

Mon, May 22 2023, 5:21 am

amother Gladiolus wrote:

The bold - I thought he said the opposite - that he spoke about this and he was approached by men, asking him to start a thing where the WOMEN need to sign and agree not to do XYZ at their simchas, and he said NO, no one should have to sign and make it a THING, they should just do it, and people will follow.

asmileaday

Mon, May 22 2023, 5:38 am

Disclaimer I didn't listen to the shiur.
I just want to comment on something I hear people saying all the time. That the rich people should lower their standards so those with less don't feel like they need to live up.
I think this is so wrong and feeding into the unhealthy mentality of I need to do what everyone is doing.
Yes it's easier and less "embarrassing" for a richer person to do things simpler because they are choosing to do so, they don't have to.
But we are forgetting that when the rich spend on their events they are giving parnossah to a very large amount of middle class people! Where is all their money going to? Lots of it is going right back into the Jewish economy and I think that's great.
It's those that can't afford to spend that need to learn not to be embarrassed by it. Spending within your means is ok and not shameful.

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