If you have an HFA son what does Off the derech mean to you

amother

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 8:08 am

I am confused. My son is a good boy. Not "rebellious" in the sense we tend to use the word however he is on the High functioning autism spectrum and does things "differently". He will not go to shul, he will not bentch, he is not at all interested in learning gemara, he cannot sit at the shabbos seuda as the noise is too much. The past few motzei shabbosim we let him strike the match for havdala so he started coming for havdala.

At the same time he is a great kid! He will never ever miss tefillin - and does it with a lot of feeling and kavana (sits with it for a good 15 minutes but doesn't really daven). He has a heart of gold for kids that are nerdy and little kids. He will not eat before davening (ie putting on tefillin), he fasts on fast days even though it's hard to do (and refuses to eat before his brothers come home from maariv on yom kippur, tisha beav etc). He also makes brachos and will never ever not wear a white shirt (I beg him to put on a tee shirt for sports etc.). He looks like a ben torah.

Some things in yiddishkeit he does and some things he doesn't do and I don't forsee him doing them for a long time. Is he considered off the derech? Rebellious?

Of course I never say anything to him about bentching (once he passed bar mitzva and even before I realized this was a struggle). I am always positive and complimentary.

Please explain my son to me? (sorry if I insulted anyone or asking a dumb question -I am truly confused).

amother

IndianRed

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 8:24 am

He is figuring out how to serve Hashem in his own way.

Try to ask him how you can help. Maybe he can make kiddish, wash and have some cholent before or after the family meal so he can have three seudos properly without suffering through the meal. And why doesn't he want to learn Gemara? Maybe there's an accommodation that will help.

But none of what you described makes him "Off the derech".

amother

Mayflower

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 8:50 am

He does not sound OTD to me.

He sounds like a good kid who loves Hashem but has some biological challenges with performing & participating in some aspects.

Why does he need to learn Gemara? His brain doesn’t work that way and he finds it frustrating. In our community there is currently a strong emphasis on Gemara but for many generations it was reserved for those with a Gemara kopf and everyone else was still a good Jew.
I wish I was a better storyteller and recalled the story of the boy who played the harmonica in shul on Yom Kipper, that was how he served Hashem.

Your son sounds lovely. Wishing you much nachas as you raise him.

shaqued_almond

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 9:11 am

He is a Ben Torah! It's amazing how dedicated he is to the mitzvot he does. The gemara I would leave alone, the mitzvah is to learn Torah, he doesn't need to know to pasken. As far as the brachot after the meal, he's old enough that you can approach him about this like an adult. In a super nonjudgmental and neutral voice ask him why he doesn't do it and just hear him out in his explanation. It might be just that he gets distracted by something sensory and forgets. You can put a sign next to the table that says something like "don't forget to bench" as a visual reminder. You can also enforce the good behavior (benching) with some sort of reward if he's interested in it. For example you could tell him for every Bracha after the meal he'll get a point. Maybe 100 points is 1 dollar, maybe if he earns x points you'll take him out for sushi. The point here is more "how can we help you do the mitzvah" not "oh gosh he's not doing this mitzvah is he going off the derech?"

amother

Purple

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 9:48 am

As a mom of a HFASD teen, I totally, totally get you.
I would define off the derech as not interested in Torah and mitzvos or on his way down not up. Right now he has a positive attitude, he does many mitzvos ase as well as many lo saase and he's a work in progress.
I tell my son often, we are all a work in progress - as long as he knows what he ought to be doing and he is working on himself to serve Hashem, he is in the right direction.

amother

Oldlace

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 10:07 am

We are taught from a young age, in whichever hashkafa we practice, that xyz means "frum" and abc means "off the derech".
While these black and white rules always have issues, they have more issues when it comes to special needs individuals. I don't think OTD has any meaning to an HFA individual. You must look at it on an case by case basis knowing that they are doing the best they can with the hand they were dealt. Especially if they have no particular anger or rebelliousness.
Your son sounds like a wonderful, courageous young man.

amother

Whitesmoke

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 10:12 am

shaqued_almond wrote:

You can put a sign next to the table that says something like "don't forget to bench" as a visual reminder. You can also enforce the good behavior (benching) with some sort of reward if he's interested in it. For example you could tell him for every Bracha after the meal he'll get a point. Maybe 100 points is 1 dollar, maybe if he earns x points you'll take him out for sushi. The point here is more "how can we help you do the mitzvah" not "oh gosh he's not doing this mitzvah is he going off the derech?"

Don't treat him like a baby.

There's nothing you can do but pray and be encouraging, which it sounds like you already are. You sound like a wonderful mother!

amother

Crocus

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 10:16 am

Enjoy your son, OP.
he is not off the derech.
he has his own purpose on this traveling path called earth.
OTD is just a label. Just for people to try to make sense of things. as a person, we need a sense of control or an explanation for why things/people are the way they are. but in reality, we know nothing of why hashem sets people on different paths...

amother

Daphne

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 10:25 am

amother OP wrote:

Shul is a horrible place if you have sensory overload. Too much talking, people too close to you, can't leave when you feel overwhelmed.

Sounds like there's a reading thing at play too.

Gemara is very theoretical at times, many autistic people enjoy learning more concrete things like halacha. My husband had a hard time in yeshiva but loveeeed his halacha kollel.

Also doing things repetitively that don't feel like they have a purpose is hard, so bentshing or havdala may seem like annoyances.

Hope this helps.

It's possible he does want to learn but at his own pace and level and the things he enjoys. Encourage that. Help him find the environment that's right for that.

shaqued_almond

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 10:46 am

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

Don't treat him like a baby.

There's nothing you can do but pray and be encouraging, which it sounds like you already are. You sound like a wonderful mother!

It's not treating him like a baby. as I said OP needs to discuss with her child what the best way is to solve the issue.

Phoebe31

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 1:52 pm

Your son sounds fantastic, IMO, OTD is when they no longer keep shabbos.

There was a gadol who said that shabbos is the last thing that someone drops when they no longer want to be religious. (and no I dont mean someone breaking shabbos by being on their phone, which from my understanding is an addiction, I mean full on not keeping shabbos.)

amother

NeonBlue

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 3:07 pm

I have a teen ds with HFA as well. He sounds very much like your son. I don't consider him off the derech at all. He has a slight disability that makes somethings too hard for him to keep at his point. It's hard for me to see as if highlights the difference between him and his peers. Just keep up the positivity, op

amother

IndianRed

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 3:09 pm

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

Don't treat him like a baby.

There's nothing you can do but pray and be encouraging, which it sounds like you already are. You sound like a wonderful mother!

It's not treating him like a baby at all. My dd actually asks me to help her create contests for herself because she knows that they help her to succeed. Of course it needs to be a goal that he wants.

amother

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:11 pm

amother IndianRed wrote:

TYSM
He eats the seudos in the kitchen and comes in and out of the dining room during the meal. He can't stand the noise.

He is totally uninterested in gemara outside of school. It's a matter of interest- he is not at all interested.

amother

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:12 pm

amother Mayflower wrote:

Thank you for the very kind post.

amother

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:14 pm

shaqued_almond wrote:

Thank you!
While he is a good boy anything he does not want to do is a hard no. Trying to make deals and talking about it just doesn't work. I know from experience.
He also has a hard time "sticking to it". Even if we'll do a deal it's never ending the prizes etc and does not stick unless there are more deals and more deals.

amother

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:19 pm

amother Purple wrote:

Thank you so much for this. He is kinda not interested in torah and mitzvos lol - I don't mean this in a bad way but he is not interested in doing any "work " for torah and mitzvos. He has a nice happy attitude to life. I am honestly fascinated by him - what he is willing and not willing to do as I mentioned in my post. Like he will not come from kiddush but will sit for 1/2 hour with tefillin calmly (even if he smells the yummy smell of breakfast that he wants to eat). He won't go to shul but needs to me say shma with him every single night. I'm so curious about how his brain works.

amother

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 5:20 pm

amother Oldlace wrote:

This makes a lot of sense to me. I am very much a black and white thinker and I think this is why I am so confused by him.