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Forum
-> Parenting our children
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amother
OP
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 Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:18 pm
My DD 8 is extremely chutzpahdig. When something doesn't go her way or she gets a no. The explosive words that come out of her mouth shock me anew...
Do I ignore?
Punishing doesn't help.
What Do I Do?
I'm at my wits end.
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amother
Steel
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 4:22 pm
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#BestBubby
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 4:36 pm
If the punishment doesn't help it is not a big enough punishment.
Punishment can be no going to friends or having friends come over.
No desserts, nosh
Taking away favorite toys, shobbos dress.
Kids say they don't care about the punishment and may even act worse.
But they do care, they are just trying to fool you.
Stay the course.
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amother
DarkGreen
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 4:39 pm
I mostly just ignore.
Sometimes I'll comment, that's not a nice way to talk, but in an off hand kind of way.
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flowerpower
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 4:45 pm
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I don’t punish for chutzpah. I ignore. They know how they are are talking is wrong and won’t get a response. The more you turn it into a power struggle the more you’ll fight with the kid. We model good talk from toddlerhood. Sentences never start with “I need or I want”. It’s always “please can I….”
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smss
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 4:49 pm
1st intervention I would try would be 10 minutes of private time every night with Mommy/Daddy (or both or switch off) where she chooses the activity and it is JUST a positive bonding experience.
Building your relationship goes far with this kind of behavior.
With the actual incidents, I would empathize with the feelings and work on how to express them respectfully. Usually not in the moment...
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amother
Garnet
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 5:03 pm
When my kids speak with chutzpah, I will make them leave the room, come back and repeat themselves respectfully. Otherwise I will ignore the comment or request until it is corrected.
My kids are pretty young still, so far it works.
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crust
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 5:08 pm
We live in times where the navi predicted that there will be more chutzpah.
I do not want my kids to be excluded from that predicament.
I ignore or I really don't hear.
If I feel that it is warranted and that I am calm enough and my words will have an impact I help the child correct him/herself.
I choose to act rather than react to it.
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amother
Mocha
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 5:15 pm
| #BestBubby wrote: | If the punishment doesn't help it is not a big enough punishment.
Punishment can be no going to friends or having friends come over.
No desserts, nosh
Taking away favorite toys, shobbos dress.
Kids say they don't care about the punishment and may even act worse.
But they do care, they are just trying to fool you.
Stay the course. |
No! This is so old school.
Think back to when you were punished as a kid what did it do to you besides hating your mom and yourself?
Blimie heller on Instagram addresses this in a recent post.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 5:57 pm
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Calmly and firmly reword what she's trying to say. She has a lot of emotion pent up in there and can't think to word it properly. She needs your help. Don't take it personally.
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#BestBubby
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 6:08 pm
She is saying
You made me mad because you said NO.
So I will hurt you back as revenge, to teach mommy she is not allowed to say NO to me.
There are many patents who are intimidated by their children's tantrums and chutzpah and are AFRAID to say NO to their children because they don't have the energy to deal with their children's punishments.
So punishment works, parents are afraid to say no to their kids.
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amother
Seablue
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 6:35 pm
You don't give examples.. Help her gain the skills she's missing
when something doesn't go her way, is chutzpah her talk out of frustration? She want to control every situation?
Can you give her examples that not everything in life she has control over? Or that every person gets good things sometime. Validate her jealous feeling.
If she's protesting every no?
1.she doesn't feel heard-, chutzpah get your reaction
2. She's already at war with you.
Besides for advice mentioned by all amothers...ignore, work on relationship, validate.....
Answer for 1.
See if she's looking for more independence. 7-9 Is a big jump in for that. Could she have a point about the no? Could it be their are to many no. The strong No's have more meaning when it's used sparingly.
Answer for 2.
Avoid strong No's
"Ma could I play outide"
correct: SURE after ....is done.
Incorrect:No not before you do......
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amother
Seablue
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 6:47 pm
| #BestBubby wrote: | She is saying
You made me mad because you said NO.
So I will hurt you back as revenge, to teach mommy she is not allowed to say NO to me.
There are many patents who are intimidated by their children's tantrums and chutzpah and are AFRAID to say NO to their children because they don't have the energy to deal with their children's punishments.
So punishment works, parents are afraid to say no to their kids. |
I just saw this coment and had to respond.
Your right, NoParent should be afraid to say no to their child but there is a way to say no to cushion a tantrum.
Like my example,
Avoid the chutzpah
Validate. I know it's a really nice day and you want to play out you could after.....
In an example that only requires a No they are less likely to comply if they think their parents are out to punish them. If they know mom only says things out of love they will more likely think the "no" was said out of love.
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sushilover
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 6:59 pm
Here is what I posted a few months ago:
Rule: "In this house, I only give and I only accept respectful communication"
Now you need to model, teach, and enforce this essential rule in order to ensure that your child knows how to interact with others.
Step one: Ensure that you yourself follow this rule and only communicate respectfully.
Step two: Look for any underlying physical and emotional triggers. Is he happy in school? Are his siblings bullying him? Is he getting enough sleep/ nutrition? Are there any moments that trigger his behavior?
Step three: Teach respectful communication through role playing, puppets, or books. What is or isn't chutzpah must be spelled out explicitly.
Step four: Spend a good few days "catching" him behaving and clearly labeling his good behavior and giving him rewards. At the same time, when he speaks disrespectfully, remind him of the house rule.
Step five: After a few days or even a week or two of faithfully following step four, go on to "blocking". When he speaks in a disrespectful way, say "try that again more respectfully" or "I cannot respond if you don't speak properly".
Continue to catch him behaving and rewarding sporadically.
Step 6: After a few days of step 5, go on to the warning stage.
"It is disrespectful to throw the books at my head. If you act in a disrespectful way again, you will [insert an age appropriate consequence]."
When chutzpah occurs again that day, follow through immediately in a firm, but not angry way. Ignore any chutzpah that occurs while you are enforcing the consequence.
Continue until the behavior has resolved. Consistency essential.
If a specific consequence isn't having an effect after trying it more than 3 times, then change it.
Continue to catch the good moments, label them and reward them. (Doesn't have to be a tangible reward. Can be a hug, extra story, more playtime...).
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flowerpower
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 7:00 pm
| #BestBubby wrote: | She is saying
You made me mad because you said NO.
So I will hurt you back as revenge, to teach mommy she is not allowed to say NO to me.
There are many patents who are intimidated by their children's tantrums and chutzpah and are AFRAID to say NO to their children because they don't have the energy to deal with their children's punishments.
So punishment works, parents are afraid to say no to their kids. |
How is punishment going to help??? Instead give her tools to cope with her anger and her impulsive personality.
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PinkFridge
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 7:27 pm
| #BestBubby wrote: | If the punishment doesn't help it is not a big enough punishment.
Punishment can be no going to friends or having friends come over.
No desserts, nosh
Taking away favorite toys, shobbos dress.
Kids say they don't care about the punishment and may even act worse.
But they do care, they are just trying to fool you.
Stay the course. |
Or, if the punishment doesn't work, it's not making sense to her.
I'm not saying that punishments should never be given, just that this is going to take chochma and a more holistic approach, I.e. not just at the moment give her some strict punishment.
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amother
Razzmatazz
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Sun, Jun 25 2023, 11:37 pm
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At a later time when she calms down, have a discussion with her. Go over what happened, where she went wrong and have her come up with what she could’ve done differently. Then have her actually do it over properly and learn that this is how she will respond the next time something similar happens.
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ShishKabob
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Mon, Jun 26 2023, 10:45 am
Chutzpah is Muktzah, ever heard of that? I think it's from Sarah Chana Radcliffe, maybe I'm wrong.
If a child speaks with chutzpah, I say, this is not the way you speak to a mother, when you are able to speak with derech eretz calmly, I can speak with you. Children need to be taught how to speak respectfully, but it shouldn't be done with anger, it's a matter of fact thing that you need to speak with derech eretz. If for some reason you can't right now, go to your room, calm down, do breathing exercises but I can't speak with you like this.
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metacognizant
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Mon, Jun 26 2023, 10:55 am
Many good ideas have been suggested above but here is what has been working for me: When my DS6 says something that hurts my feelings, I immediately, without a word, walk away into another room and shut the door. He will then quickly follow after me, and, in a gentle tone of voice, apologize. I feel like I’m showing him my authentic reaction (“you hurt me and I’m not going to stay with someone who hurts me”) PLUS I’m giving him the tools for his life later on, to not stay with people who may hurt him in the future. Plus when he offers a sincere apology we can immediately reconcile, which is the whole point.
ETA if I did this very often it might be manipulative, like I’m withholding affection. But it doesn’t happen more than a couple of times a week, which I feel like for a 6 year old is ok. He is still learning.
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behappy2
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Mon, Jun 26 2023, 11:05 am
Every kid is different
These are some helpful things I do:
In a calm might I explain that it is hurtful and can they find another way to speak to me
I give positive feedback for speaking respectfully
I sometimes ask it to be rephrased
I ignore the chutzpah and just respond to the request
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