Attending an event without a direct invitation

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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

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amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 8:28 am

Can someone please explain to me what goes on in someone's mind when they attend an event (a meal) with food being served, sit down to eat, and were not invited?

I was at a siyum seuda recently (during the 9 days). It was a men's event, and the wife invited me to be there to help and just to keep her company - I was the only women there other than the daughters. The other men were invited to make a minyan - this was not a simcha per say, it was made that night for a very specific reason and while it was fleishigs, it was very simple to be yotzei a seudas mitzvah (think - ground beef, not steak or chicken). She made enough food for the people who she invited, and I brought dishes as well. I saw the text her husband sent people, it said specifically that the invitation was for the husband and sons over bar mitzvah when applicable. She was shocked and panicked when she saw the men keep coming in. This was a very private thing in their home - and they kept coming in. My own son who was invited to make the minyan actually left because he was told to give up his chair to an adult who was not invited.

So one of the men's wives walks in, we thought just to say hi. So the hostess commented to her and to me "oh gosh, I don't think I have enough food for all of these people, why are they coming?". And the women not only stayed to eat, she called her other daughters to come as well, and her little kids.

There was not enough food at ALL. She had to change how she was serving the food to make sure everyone got a bit.

But this post is not just about this one event.

I see this happen all the time. It happens to me as well. People bring friends to events that are clearly invitation only. We have one friend who does it every time, so we know it's going to happen and expect if of them, but so many others also come without being invited.

These events are CLEARLY invitation only.

So please explain to me, if you are one of the people who joins in an event that's men only, or if you were invited and you bring a friend along (or a parent, or an adult child, or a teen, etc). WHY?

amother

Maple

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 8:31 am

Idk, in my community, more people just enhance the simcha. Whenever I see these posts about non Jewish weddings or events where every last person is agonized over whether to invite them or not I roll my eyes.
In my neighborhood, if I make a siyum or a sheva brachos, neighbors will most likely show up. It’s beautiful!! It enhances the simcha!!!
They know they weren’t invited for the meal, so they usually sit and eat from the sweet table or leftovers or a meat board or something.
If no one else showed up I’d feel sad honestly

amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 8:40 am

amother Maple wrote:

So clearly though this is not what I was referring to in this instance. The event I am referring to was not really a simcha, and the extra people who came not only ate, but made my son get up to give his seat to an uninvited adult.

But as for a true simcha, I recently made a bar mitzvah and was shocked that people came to the seuda who were not invited (children of invited adults when I specifically told them each via text that it's only kids above 13 due to budget), and also some women brought friends and they all sat to eat.

How is it enhancing a simcha if by you showing up, you are causing stress to the hostess?

If it's the norm where you live, then the hostess expects extra people and makes enough food for them. If not, then not. and ESPECIALLY if not only is it not the norm, but if the hosts are the kinds of people who have a real financial hardship, or just budget a certain amount, and have to limit guests?

When we made brissim for our sons, we could not afford to feed everyman who wants to have a nice breakfast and pack a bagel also for his wife and also for lunch at the office, so we made brissim very small and very private. We paid for all of it ourselves (no parents helping), and did not even have lox or cheese out, just bagels and cream cheese and juice.

I know I am not alone in this. I know I am far from the only person who can not go into debt to make a simcha.

But again, I'm asking what goes into someone's mind when they show up, eat, and call their kids to come as well?

amother

Bronze

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 8:43 am

Yes it sounds like bizarre behaviour.

Question and behaviour is really location dependant though.

As a Brit, I would never turn up uninvited, were far too proper for that. Yet perhaps in some other places they are more forward and assume that everyone wants their attendance, and they want everyone to join them too.

amother

Daphne

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 8:50 am

It's how you're raised.

I'd never show up uninvited and everyone we know - it's a more relaxed care free mindset I guess and maybe the husband thought everyone was invited?

amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 8:59 am

amother Daphne wrote:

It's how you're raised.

I'd never show up uninvited and everyone we know - it's a more relaxed care free mindset I guess and maybe the husband thought everyone was invited?

"Hi Ploni, I am making a small seuda on X day, would you and your son be able to come and help make the minyan?"

That was the text.

amother

Burlywood

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:01 am

I think people think "im just one person, im sure it wont matter if just I come along with my husband"
Not realizing that if many women make that assumption then there will be many more added guests
I made a siyum for my husband and only invited his chavrusa, our parents and grandparents and a few neighbors to make a minyan. 1 wife come along with her husband and sat with us few women, she probably realized at some point that she was the only women there (besides me, mil, my mother, grandmother) Baruch Hashem no one else surprised us.

Notsobusy

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:05 am

amother Maple wrote:

This is not how it works in my Lakewood neighborhood. If my husband makes a siyum in shul then it's understood that whoever is there is invited. If we make it in our house then only the people we invite come. People don't have unlimited funds to sponsor a party for whoever decides to show up. And even the people who do have lots of money may decide to make a smaller more intimate party.

Op, I'm with you on this. You don't go to a party uninvited, definitely not if it's a small party.

amother

Impatiens

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:06 am

amother OP wrote:

"Hi Ploni, I am making a small seuda on X day, would you and your son be able to come and help make the minyan?"

That was the text.

Maybe this person's wife or kids told other's about this siyum and they thought it's an invitation? Maybe the man himself invited other men? That would make sense.
I'd assume that those people didn't just show up uninvited and there was some sort of misunderstanding.

kenz

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:06 am

It’s very strange. When I wanted to bring my preschooler to a simcha to which only the older kids were invited, I asked the baalas simcha beforehand. I would never have just shown up and certainly not with other uninvited guests. Maybe to a kiddush were it’s more of a “ the more the merrier” type of thing, but certainly not to a sit down meal.

NechaMom

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:09 am

amother Maple wrote:

If someone cooks for 15 people for a small siyum in their home it doesn’t enhance anything if 30 people show up uninvited. It’s actually rude and takes away food and seats from those who were actually invited.

amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:14 am

amother Impatiens wrote:

In this case, maybe.

But it happens more often then I can understand. Not just to me or to this friend, but I've had this conversation on facebook and in real life with people. There are always those who feel they can just show up.

If there is someone who is known to always do this, then in my head when we invite them, we are also inviting the extra 4 people who they are bound to bring. But I'm not talking about just them or that type.

Maybe it's just a personality thing, and people who do this are socially clueless?

amother

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:20 am

NechaMom wrote:

So maybe this kind of person who you are responding to, the "more people enhance a simcha... I'll go if I'm not directly invited because I will enhance their simcha, and since I serve meat boards and sweet tables, I'm sure there will be plenty for me to eat"... so these people expect others to put out what they do. Even though making that kind of assumption and expectation onto others is sometimes creating stress and hardship for them.

So they are thinking, well I love it when people come uninvited to my simchas, so even though they are not well off, making a tiny and intimate and simple event, (if you know them well enough to come, you know them well enough to know they are not meat board/sweet table people!)... they will come anyway, deciding that their presence enhances and not causes tircha and stress?

NechaMom

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:23 am

amother OP wrote:

I guess there are some people who think this way so you have your answer.

amother

NeonPurple

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:26 am

If I’m not invited, I don’t show up. Even when my husband makes a siyum with one of his chavrusas. I make a cake and send it over and I don’t go unless I get an explicit invitation. Maybe people were excited to have meat during the nine days? I’m so sorry this happened to you. So upsetting.

amother

Salmon

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:35 am

Anyone who goes to a non-public simcha uninvited lacks social awareness and/or is just a shnorer

For starters ANY event held in a private home would be assumed to be by invitation only by a normal person - I don't care what the community is unless it is literally a commune of some kind.

I also can't imagine that anyone really thinks that a simcha held at a catering hall serving food is for anyone without an invitation. While most people do try to have more than enough food, it is still limited and the person throwing the simcha has ordered food expecting a certain number.

At the other end of the continuum would be events that are clearly meant to be completely public but I would think anyone in any community who isn't socially off or a shnorrer would recognize the difference between a public event and a private one.

amother

Snow

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:38 am

I think men invite other men for siyum without thinking of food logistics. They simply think there's a siyum, beautiful mitzvah, come over and let's celebrate.

Genius

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 9:47 am

Not okay. The only simcha I would go to uninvited is a lchaim where there’s no food anyway.
אין אורח מכניס אורח
Not sure about the exact wording and spelling but this behavior has never been okay.

camp123

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 10:22 am

This is really weird. I've never heard of people doing that in someone's private house.

amother

Lotus

Mon, Jul 24 2023, 10:28 am

I would not come to a private event unless invited. That being said, different communities have different cultures. If someone is acting totally contrary to the community's culture, it should be a relatively unusual occurrence.

It sounds to me like OP is regularly seeing uninvited guests show up to all kinds of events where she does not think it is appropriate. This tells me there is a disconnect somewhere between OP's expectations and the culture in her community. Otherwise it would not be such a pervasive and regularly recurring phenomenon, with so many people doing it.

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