HELP! step-sister having trouble with marraige lisc.

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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions

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Ima2NYM_LTR

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 5:53 am

my step sister, and Israeli citizen etc is having trouble getting the rabanut to give her a marriage lisc because she doesnt have 'proof' she is Jewish. Any advice?

The funny thing, she is literally the 'poster child' for the Jewish child. She was the little girl in the famous poster of the little Israeli girl and Ethiopian boy sitting in front of the AHAVA monument!

smiley:)

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 5:59 am

Get a letter from the Rabbi of her shul stating that he knows her and her mother is Jewish.

catonmylap

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 6:01 am

Ima2Netanel wrote:

Was she born in Israel?

I thought they only gave olim trouble. I took my proof of Jewish letter that my Rabbi gave me when I made aliya, and 2 witnesses (that were my unemployed friends at the time because that was who was available to go to the Rabbanut in the middle of the day). Maybe you or your dh could be a witness for her?

shalhevet

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 6:03 am

What doesn't she have? Does she have her parents' ketuva or if they didn't have one/ she doesn't have it, does she have her maternal grandmother's one?

Is she frum? If she is chareidi and it's clear that she's Jewish and there's just some bit of paper missing she might find it easier with the Eida Chareidis/ Sheeris Yisroel or another Badatz. If she's not frum she should stick with the rabbanut. Haven't they told her what documents to bring?

Ima2NYM_LTR

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 6:08 am

her parents are divorced

they are not frum

Tamiri

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 6:10 am

If they were married in Israel, the parents' marriage and divorce should be recorded in the Rabbanut.

Mishie

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 6:12 am

When we took care of our marriage license, we went to the Bada"tz on רחוב שטראוס.
I was born here, but because DH was born in the US, he had to bring a letter from the Rabbi of his Shul, stating that he's Jewish.

pinkbubbles

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 6:34 am

I had A LOT of trouble with the Beit Din when I had to get my marriage liscense. I finally found a Rabbi that was able to vouch for me (and my mother, being that I was raised religous) by a letter that I gave to them. I think they also spoke to him by phone.

It helped I had an Israeli guy, a friend of DH, who came with me to all the appointments and pushed them so I'd have my papers in time for the wedding. He also kind of knew one of the Rabbis in the liscencing department who helped us with the application as well. He was able to act as my translator because I said I didn't know a word of Hebrew, he was able to come with me in the Beit Din room for a few minutes and speak for me. Normally you have to go in on your own and face all these Rabbis.

My parents are also divorced so I had to provide the get. I also had to provide the ketuba of my mothers remarriage. Then to add to that my mother is a gyores so they needed the paper for that too, and they almost didn't accept it because they didn't know the rabbis. Of course they didn't, she converted in Canada! How do they expect to know all the Rabbis that convert people?

For DH he pretty much just had to bring a letter from his Rabbi and his parent's ketuba/get.

She needs to be really up front with them and say SO WHAT DO I NEED TO SHOW YOU TO GET MARRIED?? They can't ask for something she doesn't have! If she can get her Rabbi to go with her that would be amazing. (they told me to do that - I was like... uh, hes kind of busy.. he runs a school...)

creativemommyto3

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 6:37 am

Wow! I didn't have to do that. All I needed was a copy of my ketuba and a letter from the Rabbi of the Young israel that I went to while I was growing up. My husband was able to use a letter from his Rosh Yeshiva. I thought that you just needed a letter from an RCA Rabbi stating that you are jewish.

Ima2NYM_LTR

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 6:55 am

Thats the thing her mother (my step-mom) went with her and provided a copy of the get....the same get she GOT from the rabbanut in the first place...but that wasn't enough proof for them....

oye vey...woudl they rather they not get married and just live together...you make marraige this hard, people wont bother

pinkbubbles

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 7:07 am

Did they even tell her what to do next?

And unfortuantely a lot of people do give up and just live together. Or get 'married' in a private ceremony.

Imaonwheels

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 7:14 am

Step sister? Her parents get must be found to make sure she is not a mamzer. A ketuba and get will also prove her Jewishness. If they have these 2 documents and they are legal there should be no problem.

Stepmum

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 10:06 am

She should be prepared for battle. I got to Israel a week before my wedding. I wasn't planning on getting married there civilly, just halachically, but you can't do one without the other. We each had letters from our Rabbis confirming our Jewish status, that was enough for me, but cause my husband's father is a convert, they needed alot more from him (certificate of conversion and Kesuba). I dont know why it mattered - it's the mother that counts...

They also didn't know the Rabbi who vouched for my husband, so we needed to get someone to vouch for the Rabbi!

I think basically, it was a power struggle. The Rabbi seemed annoyed that we'd showed up a week before the wedding, thought we were pompous foreigners, and was determined to make this as hard as possible. As soon as we made him feel like we needed him, and he could 'save the day', he changed tunes.

All in all, it took a LOT of trips to the Rabbanut, and calls and faxes, to make it work.

Good Luck!

Imaonwheels

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 11:06 am

Usually one opens a tik 3 mos before the wedding. Why didn't you check? Also, you can have a halachic wedding w/o the legal but the rabbanut won't do it. I know Israelis who have done this because the kallah was 16. When she reached 17 her father signed permission and they gave her a hard time for "breaking the law" but a few words from the rav of the yishuv cleared it up.

shalhevet

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 11:15 am

Stepmum wrote:

Look I don't know the whole story and how you or other people behaved.

But I still find your post offensive. If you had needed a passport somewhere, would you just expect to get to the passport office and say I need to travel in a week and I just got here, and expect everyone to drop everything and say thank you?

If you would have checked before hand you would have known that the paperwork takes several weeks, even for those who are not pompous foreigners, and that as soon as something is a bit more complicated (gittin, parents' divorce, conversion etc) it is going to take longer.

I am not a great fan of the rabbinate, but I find this thread very unfair. People feel justified in moaning that they were checked out to ensure their Jewishness. Well, legally and halachically they need to be sure you are Jewish. So sometimes it does take a while, and yes, that is more important than booking the hall.

zufriedene

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 11:20 am

well said

Stepmum

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 1:00 pm

My apologies to those who found my post offensive. Of course, I understand the tremendous responsibility of the Rabbanut to ensure that the couple is Jewish, especially the mother.

However, in my situation, they were not concerned with MY halachic status - which I think is fair to say is the most important thing to clarify - they are taking responsiblity for the status of my children. They weren't even concerned with my husband's Jewish status - his mother was with us, and could prove her halachic status. My issue was that they a) focused on my husband's FATHER's status, which has no affect on DH's status. b) They kept changing their minds.

Sure, every beuracracy is entitled to it's rules, and I've been through enough red tape in other places to know this. But there was no clear "This is what you need." We saw the same Rabbi each time, yet his demands kept changing.

Also, about the timing. Firstly, I wasn't engaged for three months, and I'm sure there is no need for three months of red tape. My civil marriage only required two weeks, and that was only to give people time to contest it (I don't know this is done in the States, I found it quite amusing.) And I wasn't looking for a civil marriage - we did that in England. It was only when I got to Israel that I was informed that the Rabbi could not perform a Halachic wedding without the civil one. So DH and I are married twice Smile

In short, I have no objection to rules and regulations, but my situation was not about this. There were no guidelines, and the Rabbi was clearly unwilling to help us until we grovelled. I feel entitled to say that the Rabbi's behaviour WAS unjustified. As posters above have said, I think that, particularly in a place like Israel, where we run the risk of so many couples deciding to just live together, it is important that the process is simplified, and does not turn people away from getting married al pi halacha.

Imaonwheels

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 1:40 pm

I was married 13 days after filing even though the rabbanut was on strike. I would say the rabbi you chose did not do his job.

Andthere job is just as much to not create the fiction of halachic marriage for a mixed couple as it is to assure the status of you and future children.

Ima2NYM_LTR

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 4:08 pm

Imaonwheels wrote:

she isnt a mazer. She is a step-sister, not a half sister. her parents were the 1st marraige to each other. my father married her mother after all the kids were born, and after a kosher get.

Imaonwheels

Mon, Jul 14 2008, 8:43 pm

I didn't say she was. Every child of divorced parents has to prove they are not. The parents ketuba and get solves all problems.

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