I don't understand Elul

amother

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 5:09 pm

I was reading over shabbos that we are supposed to be a little scared in Elul. It's the month leading up to our judgement when our fate will be determined. We need to increase our good deeds and mitzvos to work in our favor to help the judgement go in our favor.

Does any of this make any sense? I don't claim to know hashem's system or how he works. But can we be honest for a minute please? He clearly is not deciding life, death, sickness, health, wealth, poverty or anything else based on our deeds. We all know righteous people who were struck down this year and wicked people that are thriving. And not only do we know of such people but I don't see the most minute, slightest connection between our deeds and worthiness, and hashem's judgement. If I'm being honest I's say the 2 are about as connected as the weather in Chicago and what color shoes I wear. That is they are completely and entirely not related.

We also know it says that teshuva, tefillah and tzeddaka will tear up the bad decree. Why don't I have the right to expect this be true? Why don't I have the right to expect it at least be measurable somewhat, even a little? Instead we are left with "it says it" so it must mean something but again, the people that aren't doing anything to prepare for judgment don't seem to be any worse off than those that do prepare.

And I get it. Hashem is hidden. The righteous suffer. But why act as if our fate is in some way within our control? It really doesn't seem to be the case. The people who got a cancer diagnoses last year aren't the ones who did less teshuva and are less deserving. The people that stayed healthy, married children, had easy parnassa, aren't the ones that did more teshuva than the others.

So once again I will go thru the motions and ask hashem for A, B and C. But I can't deny what I see in front of my eyes using the brain that hashem gave me. Our fates and lot in life seem entirely disconnected to how much we deserve it by devoting our lives to hashem and doing mitzvos.

amother

Freesia

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 5:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

[...] I don't claim to know hashem's system or how he works. But can we be honest for a minute please? He clearly is not deciding life, death, sickness, health, wealth, poverty or anything else based on our deeds. We all know righteous people who were struck down this year and wicked people that are thriving. And not only do we know of such people but I don't see the most minute, slightest connection between our deeds and worthiness, and hashem's judgement.

[...] Hashem is hidden. The righteous suffer. But why act as if our fate is in some way within our control? It really doesn't seem to be the case. [...]

But do you know everybody's deeds and words and thoughts, even the hidden ones?
Also, maybe other factors come in as well. Sometimes righteous people suffer because of things that are wrong in their community/city/country. Sometimes the good go just down with the bad, like in war or earthquakes, because that's how the world works. Sometimes some people just have a short lifespan assigned to them for reasons we don't know. There must be a gazillion factors going into Hashem's decisions and we can't even begin to understand one percent of them. Trying to understand how the universe is run and why things happen is as if an ant tried to study nuclear physics.

The other thing is free choice. If good people always got instant reward and bad people got zapped right away visibly for all, there would be no free choice. It would be like cows staying away from the electric fence to avoid a jolt or a dog doing tricks to get a treat.
It seems we are supposed to work on a higher level, without simple certainty.

How we behave may or may not have any visible repercussions in our lives, for good or for bad. But it does definitely influence what kind of relationship with Hashem we have. The mitzvot are a way to connect to Hashem, not buttons on a vending machine.

I once saw a bumper sticker I loved.
It went "Don't worry. Everything is under control. Just not under yours".

So, no, it's not easy. And I'm afraid of terrible things and worried about my loved ones a lot of the time. But I try to keep my relationship with Hashem going - at least He knows what's going on, even if I don't.
I like to relate to Elul as the time when the King is in the field - more approachable. If I get my requests granted I do not know. But at least I've spoken to Him.

PinkFridge

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 5:41 pm

amother OP wrote:

I was reading over shabbos that we are supposed to be a little scared in Elul. It's the month leading up to our judgement when our fate will be determined. We need to increase our good deeds and mitzvos to work in our favor to help the judgement go in our favor.

Does any of this make any sense? I don't claim to know hashem's system or how he works. But can we be honest for a minute please? He clearly is not deciding life, death, sickness, health, wealth, poverty or anything else based on our deeds. We all know righteous people who were struck down this year and wicked people that are thriving. And not only do we know of such people but I don't see the most minute, slightest connection between our deeds and worthiness, and hashem's judgement. If I'm being honest I's say the 2 are about as connected as the weather in Chicago and what color shoes I wear. That is they are completely and entirely not related.

We also know it says that teshuva, tefillah and tzeddaka will tear up the bad decree. Why don't I have the right to expect this be true? Why don't I have the right to expect it at least be measurable somewhat, even a little. Instead we are left with "it says it" so it must mean something but again, the people that aren't doing anything to prepare for judgment don't seem to be any worse off than those that do prepare.

And I get it. Hashem is hidden. The righteous suffer. But why act as if our fate is in some way within our control? It really doesn't seem to be the case. The people who got a cancer diagnoses last year aren't the ones who did less teshuva and are less deserving. The people that stayed healthy, married children, had easy parnassa, aren't the ones that did more teshuva than the others.

So once again I will go thru the motions and ask hashem for A, B and C. But I can't deny what I see in front of my eyes using the brain that hashem gave me. Our fates and lot in life seem entirely disconnected to how much we deserve it by devoting our lives to hashem and doing mitzvos.

Elul is a prep month. It's to prepare us to daven to be worthy to have our lease on life renewed another year.
There is a lot of discussion about what the focus should be. Used to be it was all about even the fish trembling. Though as far back as the 1800s there was this story with Rav Yisroel Salanter:
Rav Yisroel: Why is your face so scary?
Other person: What do you mean? It's Elul!
Rav Yisroel: Yes, but your face is a reshus harabbim and you don't have to disturb everyone.

So even then there was an understanding that we weren't spending the whole time period in mortal fear.

Now, the emphasis is on the Avinu. If we have this relationship, then we can deal with the Malkeinu.
If we can accept the Judge is also our loving Father, we'll be able to accept whatever He's going to give us.

Really, the emphasis should be on strengthening this relationship, of resolving to go through the day with the focus of being an eved Hashem; is what I'm doing at this moment serving Hashem and bringing Him more into the world as His ambassador or not?

Ksiva v'chasima tova!

amother

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 5:44 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

While yiras Shamayim is a constant Mitzva. Elul in particular is a time when Hashem in close to us. The 13 merciful attributes are shining. The Alter Rebbe gives the moshal of the Melech basadeh. Hashem meets you where you are at right now with sever ponim yafos/ in a deeply understanding, merciful and loving way.

In short, my question is do we actually see anything that we are told about elul. The importance of teshuva. Hashem's judgement based on our deeds. How are mitzvos can tip the scale in our favor. Can we really see this or is it just blind faith and frankly contrary to logic since I think we see the opposite.

You're responding with more theoretical things that we can't see. (Or can we?) You say Hashem is close to us in elul. Can you demonstrate this aside from the fact that it says so or it's brought down?

The 13 merciful attributes are shining. Again, do we see this or does it just say so? Can I assume since the 13 merciful attributes are shining in specifically Elul that there's less suffering in Elul than other months? If not, what does this mean?

You again say that hashem meets us sever panim yafos in deep understanding. Can you show me this/prove it, or is it blind faith?

I'm willing to accept blind faith, I really am. But I know that to many these ideas make literal sense. I'm trying to understand what they see that I don't.

In all the examples you give I see more things that can't be applied in a measurable way. And if it can, would you please explain how?

PinkFridge

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 5:53 pm

amother OP wrote:

This is an auspicious time to remind ourselves that we don't write the script, and we're not on a madreigah to see cause and effect so clearly.

Here's what we do: Go in to davening with your shopping list. Really. That's the middle part of weekday Shemoneh Esrei.

Just make sure you add one thing to your list of all the things you want: to serve You better. You know what tools I need. And if it doesn't always feel that way, please send me the IRL shlichim I'll need to guide me, support me, and coach me.

I've heard several versions of this story, about someone who goes through the tribulations of Iyov and the punchline is his yelling, "Hashem, You can take everything from me but my love for You!"

amother

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 6:00 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

I will absolutely go in with my shopping list. But again, if I look at the millions of jews and divide them by who came in with a shopping list and who didn't bother davening a word the entire month of Elul, do I see a difference in results? Did the people who had their shopping list do better? I honestly don't think so. Do you?

If we are talking about a relationship with hashem, that's something else. I'm talking about the shopping list itself. Am I to believe those with shopping lists had better outcomes (health, parnassah. didn't die of covid, ect) than those who completely ignored asking hashem for anything?

PinkFridge

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 6:22 pm

amother OP wrote:

Believe me, I want health, parnassah, and the works. But here's a story: Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer was always very frail and his kallah (Rebbetzin Baila Hinda, who went on to edit his writings) was urged to break the engagement. She didn't want to. She went to, IIRC, the Chofetz Chaim, who told her, some people are healthy, and some people live long.

Rav Isser Zalman, zt"l, was frail and lived long.

So not everything will be perfect. But it will be beautiful, it will be good. My we all be able to see beauty and goodness in our lives.

Surkie

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 6:41 pm

I've often had these type of thoughts as Elul begins. I literally have anxiety when I think about the lashon horah I've spoken over the past year, the hurtful things I may have said to my husband over the past year etc. and I basically ask Hashem to please give me a chance to do good and be better for the next year. Sometimes I've seen my tefillos answered clearly and sometimes I may not have been worthy of getting the asked for gift. Just because it looks to us that the bad guy is winning and the good guy is losing, we don't actually get to see the whole picture. Maybe after 120 we'll understand, but right now it really is "blind faith"/emunah/yiras shamayim for me .

PinkFridge

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 6:44 pm

Surkie wrote:

Re the LH, strong feelings aren't bad, but they can't be paralyzing.
May you feel Hashem with you, regardless of whether or not the tefillos were answered with a yes. But I hope that the rest of this year and the coming year are overflowing with yeses.

amother

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 7:21 pm

amother Freesia wrote:

No. That's not how it overall works. Individual requests do get fulfilled, Hashem hears and answers prayers, but not in a way that makes the outcome statistically measurable for whole populations.
By asking we recognize that everything is in Hashem's hands. We don't press a button that guarantees a certain outcome.

Is there anything in between measurable and blind faith? Meaning if it's as you say not measurable, are we left with blind faith? I think so.

Also, we can easily all agree that it doesn't guarantee a positive outcome. But what about something? Even a little or a drop?

I just feel like I look around year after year after year and I always hear about frantically *preparing* for the yom hadin and being ready to be judged by hashen and hoping he grants up with life, bracha, and all things should be good.....but then I realize that I personally don't see the slightest connections between our actions the entire year, during elul, on rosh Hashanah, and on yom Kippur, with what hashem will decide for us.

So what exactly am I preparing for? The bottom line is this: Are the people preparing during elul, healthier, have better parnasah, have fewer miscarriages, have easier and better shiduchim.....the list goes on.....than those that don't prepare for even a second?