Minhag avoseinu vs a personalized derech

amother

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:22 am

Thisis something I always contemplate.
On the one hand, the idea of following your father's derech is drilled into us. How important it is to uphold them.

On the other hand, people are different then their parents. Sometimes people feel pulled to a different derech. Should they be shunned for that? A person being pulled to chassidus, or to another chassidus. Or a chassidish person being pulled to the litvish derech.

Why can't a person decide, when he gets married, what type of home he wants to have?

In any case, the emphasis put on keeping your fathers minhag is a contradiction to the idea of encouraging each person to create a connection to Hashem in the way he can. This will often mean that they need to look elsewhere (other than their fathers house) to find that connection.
Thoughts?

Goody2shoes

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:26 am

You're not wrong. If someone changes their derech under the guidence of their Rav, and their goal is to have a stronger connection to yiddishkeit/Hashem, there is nothing wrong with what they're doing and we should not be stopping them.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:32 am

Interesting. I dont remember it ever being drilled into us that we must follow our father's minhagim.
We knew certain things go according to the father and sone according to the mother.
But minhagim are still minhagim. They are not halacha.

amother

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:40 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

And yet there is such an emphasis, even in halacha, of following your father's minhag.
I can't think of examples now, but I'm pretty sure I remember learning g in kitzur shulchan aruch about following your father's minhag.

The thread about the husband who wants to start sitting in the sukka on shmini atzerez. The wife feels the father in law will be insulted. Why? Half of klal yisroel eat in a sukka on shmini atzeres. Why take it personally? And yet people do.

amother

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:41 am

amother Babyblue wrote:

I think it’s only drilled in chassidish circles. It’s not really a thing in other circles.

That's ironic.
The whole idea of chassidus is just about 250 years old. So everyone who is chassidish their ancestor changed their minhag at some point. So if a person who grew up chassidish/heimish wants to take on litvish minhagim, isn't it just returning to what the family used to do a few generations back?

I learned in seminary that if someone wants to switch their nusach to sefard, they need to ask a shaila (Maybe do hataras nedarim) but to switch to nusach Ashkenaz there is no need to do anything, because that is the original nusach that he is returning to.

amother

Narcissus

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:43 am

I think keeping to the mesorah is what really keeps yiddishkeit strong. If everyone will keep changing their paths it’s just easier to lose everything. That’s my opinion. There’s a strong emphasis on mesorah in yiddishkeit because that’s what connects us to moshe rabbeinu and by extension, Hashem.

amother

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:46 am

amother Narcissus wrote:

I agree.
But then I get circled back to my original question. Its a fact that sometimes people just get pulled to a different derech.Why should they be stopped?

amother

Papayawhip

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:50 am

amother OP wrote:

I agree.
But then I get circled back to my original question. Its a fact that sometimes people just get pulled to a different derech.Why should they be stopped?

If the ones who are stopping them are parents or other close family members, we can assume it's coming from a place of shame, not because the child is doing something wrong.
No one wants to be the parent who, in the eyes of society, wasn't able to pass their minhagim and values on to their kids
This is so wrong, so many families break up over this silly pride business.
ETA- this hugging business is getting old. If you disagree, feel free to say it!

NotInNJMommy

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:52 am

The halachas around when one can change minhagim are more lenient when they are from family vs minhag hamakom. The latter is far more stringent.

essie14

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:55 am

My DH father changed his life a lot from the way he grew up, yet he's upset that his children did the same and don't follow FIL's derech.
Hypocrisy much?

I agree with you, OP. Everyone should be free to choose the path to Hashem that fits them the best.

amother

Wallflower

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 11:58 am

A lot of things get lost in translation when you take on a derech you didn't grow up with. It's nobody's fault but it just can happen that way. For example, I see in my father in law who is a BT that he doesn't get some of the nuances of the way a frum home and marriage is supposed to work and it unfortunately carries over to the way my DH treats me. He just didn't grow up seeing it done so what he implemented in his home was based on theory and abstract which he didn't necessarily implement correctly into the concrete everyday. Some things are really given over best through lived experience day in, day out.

NechaMom

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 12:32 pm

amother Papayawhip wrote:

Very well said!
No idea why it was hugged. Maybe someone loved the reply.

Highstrung

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 12:35 pm

I think parents need to respect their children who decide to switch derachim. And children need to respect their parents derachim . It doesn’t mean they need to be the same. My children are all different. DH and I have no issue with that. My FIL has some stringent minhagim for Pesach. He specifically told DH that when he gets married he should not feel obligated to take on this minhag . There’s also a concept where minhagim can be as strong as a neder and you may need to be matir neder. My DH was matir neder on a very strong minhag , with the guidance of his rav.

amother

Cyan

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 12:43 pm

amother Narcissus wrote:

I am the op from the thread about ds wanting to change minhagim- and this exatcly how I am feeling... also I grew up in culture/home where you followed what you were told and would never dare ask to change something- it would have been seen as a chutzpah.. I am wondering how many people who are responding are from a younger genreation where times have changed?

Goody2shoes

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 12:46 pm

amother Cyan wrote:

Why is it chutzpah? If I can't connect to what my parents did or are doing, why do I need to do that and feel like a fraud? Like I'm pretending to be something or someone I'm not? What's wrong with having my own derech if I feel fulfilled and get enjoyment out of it?

amother

Babyblue

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 12:48 pm

amother Cyan wrote:

That has no Torah basis. We are always supposed to grow and learn and change as we expand our knowledge.

amother

Cyan

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 12:51 pm

amother Papayawhip wrote:

You are asking to make a change from something that his been handed from generations past.... I grew up in a home of we do this, because that is the way it is done.

May I ask and this is my own curiosity, were you born in the late "70's or after- I am just wondering if I am just old school in my way of thinking.

amother

Cyan

Sun, Sep 10 2023, 12:52 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

That has no Torah basis. We are always supposed to grow and learn and change as we expand our knowledge.

There area lot of things we do that has no Torah basis, but we still do them...and the rabbanim still give psak on them... so they must count for something...